Cycling on the pavement

[edcam]

No Henry b - cyclists should stay off the pavement full stop. Motorists and pedestrians should similarly follow the rules. It's quite simple really. The judgement all about whether it's ok to bend the rules has too wide a margin, so half hearted codes of conduct don't work.

[rodneybewes]

edcam Wrote:

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> No Henry b - cyclists should stay off the pavement

> full stop. Motorists and pedestrians should

> similarly follow the rules. It's quite simple

> really. The judgement all about whether it's ok to

> bend the rules has too wide a margin, so half

> hearted codes of conduct don't work.

Well, apart from shared pedestrian/cycle pavements I presume? Or is that still full stop and half-hearted etc?

[Applespider]

Incidentally, I think the description of a fish's picture is more true to pavement cyclist than lycra louts. Most of those wearing lycra (or other cycling specific clothing) are those who commute or ride regularly and are therefore fairly comfortable on the roads and have the lights and other gear to do so. The ones who regularly wear club gear (e.g Dulwich Paragons) are generally aware that they'd tarnish the reputation of their club if they broke the law so tend not to.

The cyclists who I see on the pavement, without lights and/or jumping red lights, tend to be those in more normal clothing and on non-road bikes. There's one real eejit who regularly swings through Herne Hill cackling madly (literally) at those of us waiting at the lights.

As someone who went from not having ridden a bike on the road in more than a decade to cycling around Vauxhall Cross on a daily basis with a bit of training, good awareness and an understanding that even if you are in the right, you may need to give way, you can feel safe on the roads. Cyclists have no place on pavements unless they are shared use - and even then, it should only be at walking pace and giving way to pedestrians.

Having said that, I'd like to see better cycling provision - not least for the family I saw crossing Vauxhall Bridge this morning. A mother and two little girls (8 and possibly 6) in the bus lane making their way over the bridge northbound - I'd have preferred to see the kids on the pavement there since potentially having to cross two lanes of traffic to go straight on the northern stretch made me shudder at what might go wrong.

[rodneybewes]

Applespider Wrote:

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> Having said that, I'd like to see better cycling

> provision - not least for the family I saw

> crossing Vauxhall Bridge this morning. A mother

> and two little girls (8 and possibly 6) in the bus

> lane making their way over the bridge northbound -

> I'd have preferred to see the kids on the pavement

> there since potentially having to cross two lanes

> of traffic to go straight on the northern stretch

> made me shudder at what might go wrong.

It makes you shiver doesn't it? Child seats on the back of bikes in London traffic...

I have a few friends who are keen cyclists in Holland and they regard London cycling provision with utter horror. I tell them that it's the nature of the city and that drivers, cyclists and pedestrians are equally selfish and uncaring about each other's needs but they don't quite believe me yet. Couple more visits and they'll get there though.

[titch juicy]

Men over the age of 40 should not wear Lycra- this is an important issue.

I'm not quite 40 but have the decency to wear a pair of shorts over my cycling shorts.

[Applespider]

rodneybewes Wrote:

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> Applespider Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> It makes you shiver doesn't it? Child seats on the

> back of bikes in London traffic...

>

> I have a few friends who are keen cyclists in

> Holland and they regard London cycling provision

> with utter horror.

I'm not too stressed by the child seats - what freaked me out about this family was that the two kids were on their own bikes. The 8 year old was about 20ft ahead of the mother with the 6 year old who was valiantly pedalling up the bridge incline. It was the thought of the mother trying to signal to stop the traffic for the two kids to get into the right lane that worried me. Thankfully another cyclist had slowed to chat to her and was helping to 'block' the way.

I did wonder whether they were perhaps from Holland or Denmark and expected better provision.

[Applespider]

titch juicy Wrote:

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> Men over the age of 40 should not wear Lycra- this

> is an important issue.

>

> I'm not quite 40 but have the decency to wear a

> pair of shorts over my cycling shorts.

Nor should men or women over a certain waist measurement...

And both sexes should also ask an honest friend to check the opacity of older lycra from behind while bent over...

[Chick Pea]

Applespider Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> titch juicy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Men over the age of 40 should not wear Lycra-

> this

> > is an important issue.

> >

> > I'm not quite 40 but have the decency to wear a

> > pair of shorts over my cycling shorts.

>

> Nor should men or women over a certain waist

> measurement...

>

> And both sexes should also ask an honest friend to

> check the opacity of older lycra from behind while

> bent over...

In the voice of Edwin Star:

Lycra, huh, yeah,

what is good for

Absolutley nothing

say it again y'all

Repeatx2

Thought for today: a fish without a bicycle is likely to keep off the pavements.

[edcam]

rodneybewes Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> edcam Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > No Henry b - cyclists should stay off the

> pavement

> > full stop. Motorists and pedestrians should

> > similarly follow the rules. It's quite simple

> > really. The judgement all about whether it's ok

> to

> > bend the rules has too wide a margin, so half

> > hearted codes of conduct don't work.

>

> Well, apart from shared pedestrian/cycle pavements

> I presume? Or is that still full stop and

> half-hearted etc?

Well those would be legal wouldn't they, so acceptable. Logic innit?

[KidKruger]

Lycra - what's all that about ?

Why do people when they get a bike start wearing skin-tight apparel ?

What's wrong with jeans n t-shirt like wot I wear ? It's not cool to wear that lycra stuff, no way.

[rodneybewes]

edcam Wrote:

>

> Well those would be legal wouldn't they, so

> acceptable. Logic innit?

No it isn't logic. Why confuse legality and acceptability? It was legal for the bankers to bring us all to the edge of ruin. Is that acceptable to you?

The judgment about "whether it's ok to bend the rules" is excercised every minute of the day in every walk of life, whether you like it or not. And by the police, no less. They do that because they have this thing called prioritisation which exists because we live in a real world, not some science-fiction dystopia or Frinton. This means they spend more time on crimes far more serious than cycling on the pavement, thank god.

I cycle every day into work and back and for the last 5 feet of my journey coming home I come up onto the pavement to my gate if there isn't anyone there. For me, that's acceptable. And honestly, with all the things that are going on in this area of London (never mind the rest of the world) it makes me laugh to see the outrage caused by incidents like someone being told to get off their bike near Smithfield market. Christ.

[edcam]

rodneybewes Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> edcam Wrote:

>

> >

> > Well those would be legal wouldn't they, so

> > acceptable. Logic innit?

>

>

> No it isn't logic. Why confuse legality and

> acceptability? It was legal for the bankers to

> bring us all to the edge of ruin. Is that

> acceptable to you?

>

> The judgment about "whether it's ok to bend the

> rules" is excercised every minute of the day in

> every walk of life, whether you like it or not.

> And by the police, no less. They do that because

> they have this thing called prioritisation which

> exists because we live in a real world, not some

> science-fiction dystopia or Frinton. This means

> they spend more time on crimes far more serious

> than cycling on the pavement, thank god.

>

> I cycle every day into work and back and for the

> last 5 feet of my journey coming home I come up

> onto the pavement to my gate if there isn't anyone

> there. For me, that's acceptable. And honestly,

> with all the things that are going on in this area

> of London (never mind the rest of the world) it

> makes me laugh to see the outrage caused by

> incidents like someone being told to get off their

> bike near Smithfield market. Christ.

It's this sort of thinking that creates the problem. You think your judgment is sound - fair enough, so do most people. That doesn't mean they're right. If the laws are wrong (and they sometimes are) then campaign against them. Until then suck it up.

[Tr?]

So anyway, I was stopped at a red light recently, no other road users in sight. The light turned green and I accelerated away, going straight ahead. At the next red light a cyclist yelled through the passenger window (across my pregnant wife) that I was a c*nt. I had no clue what he was on about.

A quick think though suggested that as he tried to overtake me on the inside he had been squeezed by the slight bend in the road. This was confirmed by my wife who said she caught a glimpse of him as he came (almost) alongside. Now I hadn't checked my left mirror as I was going straight, not turning left. Not to say that I don't keep my eye out for cyclists, bikers, etc, I just hadn't in the 100 metres of this straight journey.

So at the next red light (bad day for lights) I yelled at him to f*ck off across my pregnant wife (sorry love).

Moral of the story: not sure, but he was in lycra...

[rodneybewes]

No, I will continue to do exactly what I am doing now in the full knowledge that nothing will happen and it will make absolutely no difference to the quality of life of people who live around me. How evil of me. I know this will be frustrating for you but see it as a form of training for when you take up slightly more important issues such as road safety around schools, quality of local health care or violent crime in the capital.

[edcam]

rodneybewes Wrote:

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> No, I will continue to do exactly what I am doing

> now in the full knowledge that nothing will happen

> and it will make absolutely no difference to the

> quality of life of people who live around me. How

> evil of me. I know this will be frustrating for

> you but see it as a form of training for when you

> take up slightly more important issues such as

> road safety around schools, quality of local

> health care or violent crime in the capital.

All of these things are of concern to me but that doesn't preclude having an opinion about other things. What an odd comment.

[KidKruger]

rodneybewes: cop out comment

[jimbo1964]

I wear mostly merino Wool on my bike.. Never been called a merino lout by anyone.

[titch juicy]

While we're at it.

Cyclists that use cleat pedals on their commuting bike- i've lost count of the amount of times i've been stuck behind a cyclist as a light changes to green because they can't get their shoes clipped on.

Completely unnessecary in town.

How does it go? All the gear, no idea.

[jonsuissy]

titch juicy Wrote:

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> While we're at it.

>

> Cyclists that use cleat pedals on their commuting

> bike- i've lost count of the amount of times i've

> been stuck behind a cyclist as a light changes to

> green because they can't get their shoes clipped

> on.

>

> Completely unnessecary in town.

>

>

> How does it go? All the gear, no idea.

So cyclists should have one bike for the weekend and one for town?

How the other half life.

[PaulR]

"Cyclists that use cleat pedals on their commuting bike- i've lost count of the amount of times i've been stuck behind a cyclist as a light changes to green because they can't get their shoes clipped on.

Completely unnessecary in town."

Oh my goodness. Ban cleats in built up areas. Won't someone think of the kittens. I once saw someone riding with cleats on Lordship Lane and I swear it caused God to kill a little fluffy kitten.

Actually, I think cyclists should have as many bikes as they like. And cleats. I really love the sound of a bunch of cyclists setting off together. The clicking of dozens of cleats into pedals is music to my ears - the assertive metallic click of the SPDs, the bold clack of the Look system, the barely audible but finely tuned tick of eggbeaters - i could go on...

[KidKruger]

Just got one of those rubber honky horns for my bike, well-up-to-date. Certainly keeps those blerdy pedestrians on the pavement (or out of my way on the pavement as I zoom down LL). They know their place.

[Applespider]

titch juicy Wrote:

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> While we're at it.

>

> Cyclists that use cleat pedals on their commuting

> bike-

>

> Completely unnessecary in town.

Ooooh - something I can confess to on this thread. I love my SPDs on the commute. They help me accelerate away from lights quicker since you can pull up. And stop me slipping off the pedals when it's damp.

SPDs are easier though than SLs which I think is where most of the delays occur. I get frustrated too - I know the roadie will overtake me 50ft up the road so there's no point in overtaking but waiting for him to clip in when I've already done it can make me mildly irritated.

I'll raise your clipless pedals though and throw in trackstanders. I can sits understand when it is for a few seconds when the lights are flashing amber but the ones who try to keep it up for long traffic sequence only to admit defeat just as the lights change and they end up slower pulling away make me chuckle

[titch juicy]

jonsuissy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> titch juicy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > While we're at it.

> >

> > Cyclists that use cleat pedals on their

> commuting

> > bike- i've lost count of the amount of times

> i've

> > been stuck behind a cyclist as a light changes

> to

> > green because they can't get their shoes

> clipped

> > on.

> >

> > Completely unnessecary in town.

> >

> >

> > How does it go? All the gear, no idea.

>

> So cyclists should have one bike for the weekend

> and one for town?

> How the other half life.

it's the cleat pedals on hybrids that get me really

[barriedalenick]

What's wrong with SPDs/cleats on Hybrid bikes. I had mine on for years and wouldn't be without them.

Then again I wear Lycra so I am almost a criminal to some people.

[titch juicy]

There's nothing wrong with them really- just an irrational annoyance (occasionally rational). Just seems pointless in town- when you want as much stop start control as possible.