Grammar schools, tutoring etc

[wonderwoman]

Hi I was just wondering if there are any parents whose children have been successfully selected for surrey,bexley or kent grammars. I'm a Heber parent and my son is in yr 5, I know it may be early but want to do some early research. In terms of commute (the sutton/surrey schools seem accessible), general experience of the schools, also tutoring for the tests. I attended the meeting arranged by two parents who went through the grammar application experience but unfortunately mislaid information. Does anyone have any recommendations of good tutors and how early do you start tutoring? Any advice welcome.

[EatLessBread]

I sadly can't answer this question however, I'd be interested to follow the thread and see if you obtain any replies.

x

[ewijnberg]

Hello there,

I am a tutor who specialises in 11+ and independent entry tuition. I have a 100% success rate and work with children from reception to year 6, offering tuition on a one to one or group basis. I am currently an Advanced Skills secondary school teacher and have taught continuously for the past 20 years. I would recommend starting tuition for your son as soon as possible in order to ensure that he reaches his fullest potential next September when he will sit the 11+. Tuition in Year 5 is absolutely key to 11+ success as it is vital that your child is fully prepared for the style of tests given. If you would like to discuss this further my number is 07803203259. Good luck!

[MrsDanvers]

It's obvious, but of course someone making a significant additional income as a private tutor is absolutely bound to say that tuition is absolutely key to 11+ success. Sadly she may well be right, and this is why the 11+ is such a flawed approach and why the middle classes have such a stranglehold on the places at state grammar schools.

The super bright don't need extra tuition, just a bit of exam familiarisation. It probably does give a big advantage to children who are above average but not super bright. Then of course they get into selective schools and find it's hard work keeping up, so the private tutors are hired again to help them with their work. I believe this goes all the way through to A level work in some circles.

[womanofdulwich]

If you both work as full time parents, and are not teachers, then I think the only way to crack this is with a tutor.

:(

[Jessie]

How very depressing

[cubetuition]

Hi Wonderwoman

Sue and I (Viv), (cubetuition) have being tutoring children for their 11+ exams, very successfully, for the past 12 years. We are both fully qualified teachers with years of experience and CRB checked.

We run a class in East Dulwich on Monday afternoons where all the work covered will help prepare your son for his 11+ exams. During our lessons we teach English, Maths and Verbal & Non-Verbal Reasoning.

In the October half term, our Year 6 students attend our Exam Practice Course which builds confidence, familiarises them with sitting exams and prepares them for interviews.

We would like to offer your son a FREE trial lesson in order that he can experience the enjoyable and stimulating environment that is our trademark.

Please do contact us on 07514 809027 or 020 8946 7682 for further information and/or to book a lesson.

We would love to be able to help.

www.cubetuition.co.uk

[david_carnell]

The following 11+ exam sample questions might be helpful to get your child started.

Q1. Please define "hot-housing"

Q2. If Johnny has to travel 1 hour 15 mins each way to school 5 days a week, 36 weeks a year, how many hours of his life will have been spent on public transport by his GCSEs? Please show your working and round to the nearest 50 hours.

Q3. You are earning minimum wage. A tutor costs ?25 p.h. How many meals will you have to miss to get afford enough sessions to get your child into a marginally better school on the other side of London away from their friends?

Q4. Multiple choice. Finish the sentence. "I don't want my child to mix with children outide their narrow ability bracket because...." a) stupidity is contagious b) I can't afford public school c) have you seen Educating Yorkshire?!

[Townleygreen]

Well said, david carnell!

[sillywoman]

Hehehe That's why I love this forum . . .

[????]

Q5 Why do middle class left wingers so despise aspiration?

[????]

Q7 Which of the following Labour MPs sent their kids to local schools?

a) Dianne Abbot

b) Tony Blair

C) Harriet Harman

etc, etc

the OP just asked a question on a Forum, predictable unpleasant snidy remarks from left wingers who don't believe in choice........er, except when it comes to their own of course...

..will be interesting to see for e.g. if a young left wing dad who say lives in, ooh, Bellenden, will be sending his nipper to Peckham academy in 9 years or so time.......I won't be holding my breathe

[Jeremy]

I had no idea you could send your kid to a Surrey/Kent grammar if you lived in London. Don't you have to live reasonably locally to get into a particular state school?

[Bellenden Belle]

Jeremy - no, the schools referred to are all in London boroughs.

For example London Borough of Sutton.

And no, grammar schools choose on ability not distance.

Always been the case.

[Flatforsale]

Yes I find this type of thread very depressing too on a number of levels - for the child's sake.

Besides, I do believe that some grammar schools are starting to apply distance criteria because so many parents are using tutors that they have to come up of ways of choosing between equally 'brilliant' candidates.

[david_carnell]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Q7 Which of the following Labour MPs sent their

> kids to local schools?

>

> a) Dianne Abbot

> b) Tony Blair

> C) Harriet Harman

>

Ah, sadly that's a fail Quidsy. A good grammar school boy knows that Q6 follows Q5.

Off to the Technical Modern and double metalwork for you.

[Jeremy]

It is pretty depressing... but not really surprising given lack of viable options locally.

[womanofdulwich]

If in doubt always pull the religion card- Cleggers!

[MrsDanvers]

Jeremy, as it happens London schools are now performing at well above the national standard. Lots of state-funded schools in Lewisham and Southwark are doing really well, at both primary and secondary level. It can be difficult to get a place at the more popular ones, yes, but it seems to me that it is not as polarised as it used to be.

[stacker285]

i'm so out of date it seems. I grew up in Berkshire, and sitting the 11+ (or 12+ in my case) was the norm for everyone. Mind you, there are plenty of grammar schools in berkshire, so it never seemed anything 'special'. We certainly didn't require extra tutoring, as far as i remember, exam prep was built into the curriculum. I guess this is where things have changed. I passed, btw, and I am glad I did - i'm not sure i would've been pushed or had the drive to achieve what I have today (like moving out of the area!) if I'd gone to the local comp.

[DaveR]

"Jeremy, as it happens London schools are now performing at well above the national standard. Lots of state-funded schools in Lewisham and Southwark are doing really well, at both primary and secondary level. It can be difficult to get a place at the more popular ones, yes, but it seems to me that it is not as polarised as it used to be."

It's true to say that London secondary schools (including Southwark schools) are now performing much better than in the past, but average figures are composed (unsurprisingly) of good, bad and indifferent schools, and whether you are likely to get in to a good local school depends on a number of factors. It's also the case that the different levels of attainment at A level remain pretty stark.

It all makes for genuinely difficult decisions for local parents and kids. TBH, it's easy if you dismiss the idea of sending your kid to a grammar school on ideological grounds, but many people don't, and have to work out what they think is best for their particular situation.

There was a somewhat more measured discussion of this on an earlier thread (i.e. without sarcy pointless comments from smug, childless ex-grammar school boys).

[MrsDanvers]

I don't think A level attainment is all that relevant to entry at 11+. GCSE performance, yes, but lots of young people move schools for sixth form.

[BB100]

david_carnell Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The following 11+ exam sample questions might be

> helpful to get your child started.

>

> Q1. Please define "hot-housing"

Answer: A place where my child goes to learn without having their education disrupted by disaffected children who have no intention of learning.

>

> Q2. If Johnny has to travel 1 hour 15 mins each

> way to school 5 days a week, 36 weeks a year, how

> many hours of his life will have been spent on

> public transport by his GCSEs? Please show your

> working and round to the nearest 50 hours.

Answer: exactly the same amount of time it takes for my other child to get to Kingsdale and back (they leave at the same time and the grammar one gets back home first.

> Q3. You are earning minimum wage. A tutor costs

> ?25 p.h. How many meals will you have to miss to

> get afford enough sessions to get your child into

> a marginally better school on the other side of

> London away from their friends?

Answer: zero. Didn't have a tutor, just a good primary school.

>

> Q4. Multiple choice. Finish the sentence. "I don't

> want my child to mix with children outide their

> narrow ability bracket because...." a) stupidity

> is contagious b) I can't afford public school c)

> have you seen Educating Yorkshire?!

Answer: d)because he does that outside of school and he's not missing anything my other children will assure you.

[Too Good To Be True]

The main reason parents don't send their kids to say, Peckham Academy, isn't because they're worried about mixing with poor children. If this were the case (as BB100 points out) they wouldn't live in SE London at all.

The usual problem is a school spends so much time getting the weak kids to just over 5 grades A-C, they can't stretch the bright kids.

So if you ask, "How many of your pupils went to top universities last year and what subjects did they study?", the answer is a huge disappointment.

This is exacerbated by the fact that many teachers won't be academically able themselves. Is a Lampeter graduate teacher with 2 D's at A-Level going to get pupils into UCL, Imperial, Cambridge etc?

Why take the risk?

I think the answer is for schools in challenging areas to pool their bright pupils with bright teachers+university academics for a small proportion of the week. They do this in Bristol. Not seen any evidence (yet) of such a scheme in this area.

[westof]

> I think the answer is for schools in challenging

> areas to pool their bright pupils with bright

> teachers+university academics for a small

> proportion of the week. They do this in Bristol.

> Not seen any evidence (yet) of such a scheme in

> this area.

This is a great idea, also good for those of us with middling, average, maybe just non-academic but lovely and hardworking children, who'd like to send them to a school where children of all abilities including the super-brainy are nurtured. Or where maybe if they weren't noticeably academic at age 10, if they shone later they could end up in the top set with the brainy kids.

That said, I can understand people sending their children to a grammar if they can, & if it's the right fit for them (e.g. they don't need loads of tutoring to get in) - we all do the best we can by our individual children.

But I'd much prefer a situation where Grammars weren't needed (or perceived to be needed).

To wonderwoman: Year 5 is not too early at all to start wondering about grammars - I have a feeling some of the grammar exams are taken very early in Year 6? So if you leave it until you start looking round Secondary School Open Days in the autumn of Year 6, you may have missed the boat.

And if you are only now thinking about grammar entrance in Y5 then you hardly come under the category of 'parent who's tutored their child since birth' ;-) - you have nothing to lose by giving it a go.