To all those grumpy Monday morning commuters....

[goosemum]

I know it's Monday and it's cold and dark, but if you see a very heavily pregnant woman on the train (and a number of you looked up when I spoke to her), please at least offer your seat, if only to restore my faith in humankind.

[lane lover]

Why didnt you say something at the time? How did you know they are even from ED?

[Loz]

Whilst it is nice if people offer, if they don't ASK nicely. You will almost certainly get a friendly response.

Besides, in winter, with all the extra coats being worn, the dreaded fat/pregnant question becomes even harder.

[cle]

lane lover Wrote:

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> Why didnt you say something at the time? How did

> you know they are even from ED?

Easier to moan on an anonymous board than to proactively do something or speak up, of course...

[sfmrs]

I see this all the time but when I have spoken up for a pregnant woman she has said she doesn't want the seat. It's hard to know when to and when not to

[jimbo1964]

I've had two terribly embarrassing 'I'm not pregnant' moments. A 'Baby on Board' badge genuinely helps.

[Jeremy]

Either wear the badge, or ask for the seat!

[purplebreeze]

I agree with the asking bit too but it is embarrassing sometimes to ask and also whilst we are there it would also be nice if people were aware of disabilities, I have been on and off of crutches for the past 30 years (due to a road accident - knocked over by a cyclist and it was my fault before anyone asks) and have currently been on 2 crutches full time since May this year. I have had to stop using the overground during rush hour so work was hard for 3 months and when I was made redundant another job came up but I could not travel to it as it meant using the tube (no hope of a seat) (so any local job offers appreciated). But also travelling on the bus is really hard as if the disability is with your leg/s then there are only a few seats that you can actually sit in so sometimes you have to let busses go or if you could have got on - say for example at Elephant and Castle then you are stampeded out by the masses and have no chance. I have to say though I agree with the original poster here as I have on numerous occassions, when only being on 1 crutch given up my seat for pregnant women on a packed train and likewise a heavily pregnant woman recently gave up her seat for me - and even on our conversation no-one else offered another seat. I am not saying these were ED people Im just saying awareness goes along way.

[Otta]

I find it disgusting the number of people with buggies that will just stand there pretending the person in a wheelchair isn't there.

But that certainly isn't exclusive to ED.

[puwetter]

I was on a 68 bus and from a stroke I have to walk with a stick a pregnant woman was giving up her seat for me as everyone sitting on disable seating not disable looked on I said no to her I said if I fall I will hurt myself but if you fall you hurt two people so she held on to my walking stick so I could hold on tight still no one got up (SHAME)

[purplebreeze]

puwetter Wrote:

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> I was on a 68 bus and from a stroke I have to walk

> with a stick a pregnant woman was giving up her

> seat for me as everyone sitting on disable seating

> not disable looked on I said no to her I said if I

> fall I will hurt myself but if you fall you hurt

> two people so she held on to my walking stick so I

> could hold on tight still no one got up (SHAME)

I think this experience is all too common and such a shame. I hate it when the abled person expects you to get out of your seat when you are on the outside before the bus stops so they can get ready to get off. I make it clear now that I will stand up ONCE the bus has fully stopped and people have been really really rude to me about it, including one women who tried to climb over me to get out!

[Northeastview]

I wish people would just say 'excuse me' when they need to get passed me in my seat, rather than stand up and stare at me or worse still, shove past. This is my only real pet bus hate.

[Ladygooner]

or even Excuse Me Please would be nice

[SidW]

It's always good to offer your seat to someone who obviously needs it more than you but sometimes it's not obvious and hard to distinguish. I always try and offer my seat to a pregnant lady or the elderly or disabled - I very rarely do not.....but I myself have a heart condition and I have a heart monitor inside my chest - standing for a long time sometimes makes me dizzy or if I've had a bad 'heart' day then I need to just sit and get home as quickly as possible. To look at me you would never know, but I'm sure on some of my vary rare occasions when I haven't stood up I was being judged. Sometimes people do need the seats but their conditions are not as obvious as others.....and some people are just ignorant and stay seated because 'they've paid for a ticket'.....

.....o and about standing up so people can get off - my balance is poop too, so I stand up when the bus has stopped, genuine safety reasons.

[mooncake]

Surely the point is that too many people don't make a point of regularly looking up to see if anyone needs their seat?

Worse still - people occupying the PRIORITY seats still take no regard, gluing themselves to their phones, or even taking a snooze. People with badges are frequently not offered a seat because no one is looking.

I don't blame people who are not brave enough to ask for a seat. It's embarrassing to make a fuss and watch the uncomfortable shuffles as everyone waits for someone else to offer first. I think first time mums are particularly guilty of this. I've even had someone hastily decline when I spoke up in a packed carriage even though she clearly needed and wanted a seat (didn't have my own seat to give). It's especially difficult if you're not used to having any entitlement to a seat and long-accustomed to jam packed London transport.

Thinking about it now, why dont tfl do a badge that anyone needing a seat can wear - not just baby badges (which I've also been told is also quite distressing if you're a commuter struggling to conceive!). It would help people like Sid, but also you don't want to wear a baby badge in the first trimester when you might actually need a seat the most!

[muffins78]

I've just seen this thread and it's something that is on my mind every day going to work. Like Sid, I've an invisible condition and on bad days, I'm literally petrified of either not having a seat or worried that I look like an awful person if I don't offer my seat to someone who visibly needs it.

I've given my seat to others on days I know I may just manage it, but again then feel stressed about standing! It can be difficult and embarrassing having an invisible condition.

Mooncakes idea is excellent. My friend gave me a baby badge, but I've never used it, I just couldn't lie like that. I did look up the travel sites and Southwark recently about disabled travel, but because I'm not on benefits (and some other requirement which I can't remember at this time), I can't apply for the pass. What's most bothersome is that these passes give you free travel, I don't want feel travel, I just want something to demonstrate that I am disabled and I'm not a bad person for needing to sit.

This then opens another kettle of fish, because one of the benefits you are to be on is disability benefit, but I know people with my condition, who have not received it despite the extent of the surgery and ongoing symptoms they have, others have. But we are completely covered by the disability act (now renamed), there seems to be discrepancies in the system - but nothing is ever perfect!

The badge is an ace idea, really ace!!

[Loz]

Given the rampant abuse of the blue badge parking scheme, I'm afraid that such a system will probably be equally misused.

[purplebreeze]

SidW Wrote:

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> It's always good to offer your seat to someone who

> obviously needs it more than you but sometimes

> it's not obvious and hard to distinguish. I always

> try and offer my seat to a pregnant lady or the

> elderly or disabled - I very rarely do not.....but

> I myself have a heart condition and I have a heart

> monitor inside my chest - standing for a long time

> sometimes makes me dizzy or if I've had a bad

> 'heart' day then I need to just sit and get home

> as quickly as possible. To look at me you would

> never know, but I'm sure on some of my vary rare

> occasions when I haven't stood up I was being

> judged. Sometimes people do need the seats but

> their conditions are not as obvious as

> others.....and some people are just ignorant and

> stay seated because 'they've paid for a

> ticket'.....

>

> .....o and about standing up so people can get off

> - my balance is poop too, so I stand up when the

> bus has stopped, genuine safety reasons.

I totally understand this and when people are moaning I say dont judge the book by the cover...I have a friend whose son died at 18 due to a heart condition you so could not see and his twin suffers a similar one and on the surface she looks healthy and young and fit but the underlying truth is different. I see Baby on Board badges and hear there are sisability badges maybe one of these would help...poss they should make a badge saying 'unseen disability' which could help a lot of people.

[purplebreeze]

muffins78 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I've just seen this thread and it's something that

> is on my mind every day going to work. Like Sid,

> I've an invisible condition and on bad days, I'm

> literally petrified of either not having a seat or

> worried that I look like an awful person if I

> don't offer my seat to someone who visibly needs

> it.

>

> I've given my seat to others on days I know I may

> just manage it, but again then feel stressed about

> standing! It can be difficult and embarrassing

> having an invisible condition.

>

> Mooncakes idea is excellent. My friend gave me a

> baby badge, but I've never used it, I just

> couldn't lie like that. I did look up the travel

> sites and Southwark recently about disabled

> travel, but because I'm not on benefits (and some

> other requirement which I can't remember at this

> time), I can't apply for the pass. What's most

> bothersome is that these passes give you free

> travel, I don't want feel travel, I just want

> something to demonstrate that I am disabled and

> I'm not a bad person for needing to sit.

>

> This then opens another kettle of fish, because

> one of the benefits you are to be on is disability

> benefit, but I know people with my condition, who

> have not received it despite the extent of the

> surgery and ongoing symptoms they have, others

> have. But we are completely covered by the

> disability act (now renamed), there seems to be

> discrepancies in the system - but nothing is ever

> perfect!

>

> The badge is an ace idea, really ace!!

Is there still such thing as disability working allowance? even if people didn't get money then maybe they could get a badge of some kind through that. Just a thought.

[muffins78]

Even if you are working, you can be entitled to disability allowance (and/or carers allowance). Its not tested on income, simply on disability (well it was, when I looked into ages ago). The form is really complicated, not in terms of difficulty, but in terms of intrusiveness and what you need to say. Wholly embarassing really, but I do understand why it needs to be done in that way. I gave up trying to apply for it after a few questions, I just couldn't write out what I needed to, I've a hard enough time speaking to my friends/family about it - and have lost friends along the way because of the amount of times I've let them down e.g. cancelling seeing them last minute or not wanting to make plans in advance with them (because I can let them down) or simply not been able to join in with what they are wishing to do (you wouldn't believe the simplist of things I cannot commit to). Because a condition is invisible, sometimes people can't believe it exists or understand it.

Some of these allowances are all or nothing, and I think it does not help a majority of people. A lot of people will be like me, determined to stay working and "prove" that I am able to do what others can (contradiction I know). It would be great if there was a happy medium available - "I am disabled, I don't want any income type benefits from the state, but I would like an acknowledgement that is recognised within the country".

I just don't get why we can be technically protected in the workplace by different laws, but on a practical level e.g. public transport, there is no help available whatsoever - unless we look to take money from the state, which is eating into the governments resources unnecessarily.

In relation to baby badges, can you not get them in the first trimester? How do you get them in the first place? Do TfL not just give them to you if you ring up? I thought that is what happened.

[purplebreeze]

This may be good for people with hidden disabilities to show a driver of a bus for assistance in getting a seat or at least not driving off before you are sat down.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/travel-support-card-printable.pdf

[goosemum]

-- moved topic --

[NessD]

Yedped- the first trimester was when I needed a seat the most, some days my morning sickness was so bad even having my eyes open made me feel unbearably sick. I'd much rather of had a seat from week 7 to 16 than in week 40 but I didn't want to wear the badge in the first 12 weeks as too many people I work with get on a the same train as me. In my experience people on the train were good at giving you a seat if you were visible, but getting on at ED means you are inevitably squashed up by the door. I wore a badge on those occasions so people didn't barge me! On busses there was no hope of a seat and I didn't like to ask as I was always worried I was kicking out someone else who could be in the early stages of pregnancy themselves or have an unseen disability and need a seat just as much as I did. Commuting - it's a minefield!

[Pugwash]

Having had to use a walking stick when out and about due to arthritis in my knees, hip and spine for the past year, I am surprised as to the number of people that have offered me a seat on the bus. I too have a disability which effects my balance and even before the arthritis- could not go upstairs on the bus as I could not balance on the stairs. Many moons ago when pregnant with youngest daughter, had to travel up to County Hall by Westminster Bridge daily, and frequently lost my balance whilst standing on the bus and my big belly hitting those sitting down Sometimes I got a seat - the rest of the time other passengers would just mutter and get annoyed.