MMR and Autism- whats your opinion...

[malwinka11]

Just read in an article about MMR jabs and autism....

I have two daughters who are 14 months and 3 years who are soon due for this jab

Was wondering whats yr opinion - is there a link between MMR a Autism?

[Hbarbor]

Hi id be interested to read the article if you have a link to it?

[malwinka11]

There r couple of them

http://www.undergroundhealth.com/courts-quietly-confirm-mmr-vaccine-causes-autism/

That's one of them

[Medusa]

I have a background in complementary medicine and at the time I was training at college, we were pretty unequivocally taught that vaccinations cause all kinds of immune problems. This was before the Wakefield fiasco. I read everything I could get my hands on and felt that I couldn't trust the safety of vaccines and wouldn't vaccinate my own children.

Fast forward several years and two things happened: first, measles arrived in SE22 and along with it at least one case of scarlet fever. Unfortunately for me, I caught the latter and was pretty ill and left with long-term health problems as a result; second, my (at that point still unvaccinated) children were all showing signs of autism. They were all formally assessed and diagnosed with Asperger's. I did review all the evidence relating to vaccine safety at some point and conclude that the only studies purporting to show a connection between vaccination and autism were those with minimal, if any, scientific validity. There was a vast amount of pseudo-scientific material (similar to the articles linked to above)which is easy to shred with even the most basic knowledge of either science, autism or both.

Here's a more (IMHO) credible article:

http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/48/4/456.full

I understand the scepticism and mistrust. My brother almost died within 24 hours of being vaccinated and when my mother attempted to report it, her GP refused point-blank to log it as a vaccine reaction. This sort of thing not only skews the data, but also feeds people's suspiciousness. Further, the fact that vaccine research is almost invariably funded by pharmaceutical companies tends to fuel the sceptics' fire. Of course, the fact that all oranges are fruit does not mean that all fruits are oranges; the fact that big pharma pays for the research doesn't render it invalid either. Scientifically credible research is extremely expensive to carry out, which means that few bodies are willing/able to fund it. The fact that pharmaceutical companies fund it may mean that they have a vested interest in the outcome, but if a research study is carried out double-blind, etc, it should not be possible to 'tweak' the results, whatever your own interests/bias. It does, however, *look bad* to people who don't trust multi-nationals, politicians and people in positions of power.

Because of my personal history with all of these issues, I have pretty strong feelings about it. I vaccinated my children late and with a heavy heart but (mostly) resolute head. I tend to think that if dialogue about this issue were more open and with each 'side' more willing to engage, rather than dig themselves into ever more entrenched positions, it might help a little. Unfortunately there is at least some degree of misinformation from both sides of the debate and a hefty amount of claptrap that infuriates me (eg references to 'causes of autism' and 'recovery from autism' as cited in the OP's linked article) and which lowers the quality of any possible discussion about vaccination.

[HelloDulwich!]

The study linking MMR to autism was completely debunked and discredited.

[VanessaNanny]

I was a child born in 1984. My parents refused to give the MMR jab to both myself and my brother due to the link with autism.

In the little town in which I grew up we had two cases of kids developing severe autism after the MMR jab.

There was an interesting article I read ( in Italian unfortunately) that explained the link with the old jab containing a high level of nickel and autism. I read so many more articles against and pro MMR and I think that each parent has to think about what it is best for its children.

I grew up with very few jabs in me (tetanus, polio, epatitis) and I did the MMR at the age of 24 years to avoid getting German measles as an adult.

[TE44]

Two whistleblowers, ex employees of Merck (makers of mmr) filed a federal false claim in 2010, link below. This case was under sign (no access to pubic) until 2012. Merck did not pursue a libel case against them.A few days later Chatom primary Care also filed against Merck.I believe this is also under sign still.

http://www.examiner.com/article/whistleblowing-virologists-sue-merck-for-alleged-falsification-of-mumps-data

I have not vaccinated my children, now all adults, as the years have went on and information, although bias and

confusing from both sides, is more easily available through computers,I have found thhe pharmaceutical companies

actions criminal. There is so much conflicting information we can only do what we believe to be best.

[malwinka11]

Now even more confused ..

My 3 year old had both at around 12 and 15 months of age and my 14 months old had hers at 1 year of age and is due t

[malwinka11]

Now even more confused ..

My 3 year old had both at around 12 and 15 months of age and my 14 months old had hers at 1 year of age and is due to have her booster in the next 1 or two months :/ it would be easier not to read the article till she had her second MMR

They both were fine after their jabs ...

There is another thing that comes to my mind in some places they say yr Kids get their MMT at the age of 1 then a booster around 15 months then another say 1 year, 15 months and again before going to reception and I even found one more saying they get when they 1 then a booster when they around 4 or 3 years and 5 months ;/

Think I will leave for a long while because after reading all these comments and articles I'm more confused and it's even more difficult to decide :/

Thank you all for yr opinions

[hpsaucey]

I've had similar reservations to Medusa above. With my second, he's actually had the first round, but I had heard that you could get a test done to see if the first round of jabs had left them with enough immunity to warrant holding off on the second jab. Somewhere in London does the testing - although I don't know what your local GP would say if you asked to have their immunity tested before going for the second jab but I don't think they offer it. Not looked into it further to assess it properly though.

H

[etta166]

What ever decision you make, remember that you need to weigh up the risk of the vaccination (what ever you think that these risks are) against the risk of catching the disease. In the case of the MMR, remember that measles can be very serious and even fatal in rare instances and that German Measles has serious risks if you contract it while pregnant.

The initial "research" linking MMR with autism has been conclusively debunked by many, many other parties. Not just here, but in other European countries, Canada, the US, Australia... I could go on. It isn't only drug companies that think the MMR is safe. So does the NHS and the governments of almost all developed countries.

For me and my children it was a simple decision. I would not take the risk of death or serious complications from measles when a vaccine is available. The vaccination is, in my opinion, much safer. Nothing is risk free, ever, but vaccines approved by the NHS come pretty close.

[etta166]

https://showyou.com/v/y-lhk7-5eBCrs/penn-teller-kill-the-antivaccination-argument-in-just-over?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=timeline

not had a chance to watch, but it might be helpful.

There are also a lot of threads on this subject already. You can search for them.

[lindzi00]

For all people who think vaccination is safe I reccomend Vaccination Bible. You can get one one Ebay. What I think- i read a lot about studies of some doctors who discovered that vaccination is not that save as government say. Most of them lost they jobs and right to work as doctors. Why???? Different doctors in different places found same problems and there were banned for talking about loud. I didn't vaccinate my children. Why? I spoke with friend who vaccinated just first two of 6 children she have. These two have the most problems with health. The other 4 is perfectly fine all the time.

[root]

malwinka11 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Just read in an article about MMR jabs and

> autism....

> I have two daughters who are 14 months and 3 years

> who are soon due for this jab

>

> Was wondering whats yr opinion - is there a link

> between MMR a Autism?

It is not a matter of opinion but one of fact. Any link

between MMR vaccine and autism has been discredited.

The wikipedia article provides a good summary and links

to the relevant sources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine_controversy

[etta166]

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-antivaccination-movement-20140120,0,5576371.story#axzz2r8HfEMuf

This LA times article should also help you to understand the risk you take by not vaccinating. The risks are not just for your children, but for the population at large.

[root]

etta166 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-a

> ntivaccination-movement-20140120,0,5576371.story#a

> xzz2r8HfEMuf

>

> This LA times article should also help you to

> understand the risk you take by not vaccinating.

> The risks are not just for your children, but for

> the population at large.

Thanks for sharing that article. You may enjoy listening to

Michael Specter's talk "The dangers of science denial":

[devsdev]

*note: shouldn't this be in the discussion section?*

This is pretty timely for me as my LO is due her 15 month MMR booster and I was once again thinking about whether it was entirely safe. Pre-child I was 100% pro-vaccine. I went through the first 3 sets of vaccines plus the BCG without really questioning if they were "safe". I'm from India and vaccines are an essential part of any child's life - indeed, any child's survival. I've had plenty of boosters in adulthood as well. However the 12 month MMR definitely gave me pause - every parent wants to do what's best for their child. The amount of misinformation abounding about the MMR is astounding. This despite the fact that autism cannot possible be caused by a vaccine at 12 months. My friend's daughter is autistic and evidence of this was visible well before 12 months.

OK, my sample size is one, but how many people are aware that Wakefield's sample size was just 12? And not just that - these were 12 pre-selected children chosen for medical conditions they already had - chosen to try and prove a point that was actually ultimately unproven. Add to that the fact that he made a lot of money through this scandal and it's amazing that his quackery still impacts a lot of us. Here is another link: http://briandeer.com/solved/bmj-piltdown-medicine.htm. Looking forward to watching the TED talk too.

We do all we can to protect our children. But don't forget the obligation to protect other people's children (and any adults with compromised immune systems as well). If your child is not vaccinated would you be able to keep him/her out of playgroups or nursery or school? What about making sure your child is healthy enough to enjoy his or her childhood as well? Another interesting article: http://www.voicesforvaccines.org/growing-up-unvaccinated/

Getting off my soapbox. I'll be taking my daughter for her booster this week.

[Saffron]

lindzi00 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> For all people who think vaccination is safe I

> reccomend Vaccination Bible. You can get one one

> Ebay. What I think- i read a lot about studies of

> some doctors who discovered that vaccination is

> not that save as government say. Most of them lost

> they jobs and right to work as doctors. Why????

> Different doctors in different places found same

> problems and there were banned for talking about

> loud. I didn't vaccinate my children. Why? I spoke

> with friend who vaccinated just first two of 6

> children she have. These two have the most

> problems with health. The other 4 is perfectly

> fine all the time.

That's an anecdotal observation.

And so is this, but from an opposite perspective:

Growing Up Unvaccinated: I had the healthiest childhood imaginable. And yet I was sick all the time.

Link here http://www.slate.com/articles/life/family/2014/01/growing_up_unvaccinated_a_healthy_lifestyle_couldn_t_prevent_many_childhood.html

[Saffron]

If you make decisions based on anecdotal observations, this called 'emotive' decision making, as opposed to scientific or logical decision making. Whatever your decision making process, it's currently your choice. Indeed many decisions are a combination of both emotive and logical decision processes. However, we as parents and members of a social community should have no pretenses about portraying one process as the other when clearly they are not the same. Don't forget that your choices have the potential to affect communities, not just individuals. xx

[Gubodge]

Stories from victims of vaccine-preventable diseases: http://shotbyshot.org/

[sillywoman]

HelloDulwich! Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The study linking MMR to autism was completely

> debunked and discredited.

Absolutely. And Wakefield himself has said that his research wasn't intended to be interpreted that way and doesn't stand up to any scrutiny. He said that YEARS ago. I can't believe people are still using his old, unreliable, completely and utterly discredited-by-it's-author research as a validation for their decision making. Shocking.

[Tickle1978]

Parents want what is best for their child, however, Vaccines such as MMR work via herd immununity in that for it to be successful people need to have the vaccine.

Parents choosing not to have their own child immunised are relying on other parents taking, what could be seen as a calculated risk to immunise their children and thus protect none immunised children.

If the effects of diseases such as measles were rife would parents be making the same decision of non immunisation?

[etta166]

Tickle1978 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> If the effects of diseases such as measles were

> rife would parents be making the same decision of

> non immunisation?

We all saw the result of uptake falling too low for herd immunity last year, with the measles outbreak in Swansea (and other parts of the UK). Teenagers who were not vaccinated in the wake of the Wakefield scandal contracted measels in droves. Some were seriously ill. One poor boy with measles tragically died.

Not vaccinating your child is taking a risk of death or debilitating complications from a vaccine preventable disease. In this part of South London uptake of the MMR has fallen below the level needed for herd immunity to protect the unvaccinated, so you can't rely on others to prevent an outbreak in the area.

I don't think that anyone who had seen the effects of a measles epidemic would turn down the MMR, but in the UK we are generally isolated by time a distance from the reality of the diseases that we vaccinate against. It is hard to put your child through a medical procedure when the benefit appears so intangible. However, the reality is that we are only so lucky to be igorant of the devestating effects of these diseases because of the easy availability of vaccines like the MMR and the wide uptake that they have had in the past.

This is a quote from the CDC website linked to below:

"About one out of 10 children with measles also gets an ear infection, and up to one out of 20 gets pneumonia. About one out of 1,000 gets encephalitis, and one or two out of 1,000 die."

http://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/overview.html

There, in black and white, is the risk of not having the vaccine. If you think that the MMR is more dangerous than measles, then it is your call. You don't have to vaccinate your child.

[root]

> http://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/overview.html

>

> There, in black and white, is the risk of not

> having the vaccine. If you think that the MMR is

> more dangerous than measles, then it is your call.

> You don't have to vaccinate your child.

Or better still, if you don't want to vaccinate your children then do not have children in the first place as it is the lives of others and society at large you are putting at risk when you don't.

[hellosailor]

root Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> Or better still, if you don't want to vaccinate

> your children then do not have children in the

> first place as it is the lives of others and

> society at large you are putting at risk when you

> don't.

You're nor getting it root. It's the parents choice. Who are you to say that people who do not vaccinate their children should not have children. You sound like the Daily Mail, in fact I've never read a post by you that didn't sound like The Daily Mail.