what was the gardens...who/what next?

[VanessaPMR]

Yes, totes agree, women are SHIT, they have kids and bring them to places with them, they even have things called buggies which shouldn?t exist, that their babies sleep in, they drive me MAD swanning around pushing those contraptions, STAY AT HOME..you pompous snoot bags.

I see them looking at me with their devil eyes too, you know.

Also, to get back to the OP, I would like to know what on earth it says about the world we live in that a business which was not very mummy-buggy-brigade friendly is being replaced by one which is...its like they are winning or something?

[Cedges]

minder Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Where is that cedges? DPG? Venues have got a bit

> lost on this thread!

This was the conversation thread I was aiming for - apologies! Trying to reply on my phone is always a mistake!

> ortuke Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> > Try le chandelier if you want peace ? they don't

> > really encourage kids I'm there so it remains a

> > mostly adult only area I believe and the food is

> > nice too...

Cedges Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> They don't really encourage people full stop,

> that's the problem.

first mate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> le Chandelier is fab and very people friendly and

> serves the best tea, coffee and cakes around.

> However they are not tolerant of buggies or

> rampaging children...as someone else has mentioned

> the space is too small for that and since everyone

> pays the same for their chosen repast it seems

> fair too. Unfortunately some mummies get very

> snippy about this and choose to trash the

> reputation of the place.

Cedges Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm not a 'mummy' and I get treated awfully in

> there. Its hardly just that demographic they seem

> to dislike.

As for DPG - I think they would have had every right to request that customers don't consume their own food in their cafe - perfectly reasonable concept and I'm a bit horrified that people think that is appropriate to do so(baby food and anything dietary specific etc excluded of course).

[Louisa]

LD is onto something here. Working class single mothers (in particular but not exclusively) are often looked down upon by the smug middle class bugaboo owning mothers who are probably more comfortable financially. You do see it all the time, and these new parents often act as though they are the first parent ever to walk the earth and deserve special treatment even though many would have been the types to sneer at single mothers back in the day.

Louisa.

[*Bob*]

c'mon Lou! One more time - let's party like it's 2006

knees ap maaaver braaaaaahn

knees ap maaver braaahn

boom tiddly eye doh

diddle-diddle eye doh

kneees.... aaaap ... maaaaaaaaaVEEERRR BRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHN

[Louisa]

*Bob* I may need counselling. Bugaboo gang members trawling the streets and caf?s annoying everyone else in ED make me so angry.

Louisa.

[DaveR]

I don't think it's counselling you need.....

[NewWave]

LadyDeliah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> My problem with the mummy-buggy-brigade as they

> seem to have been named now, is that many of them

> remind me of the women who, 28 years ago sneered

> at me and made judgements because I was a young

> mother.

>

> There was no thought at that time, of making

> things easier for mother's with young children to

> stay socially involved in their communities.

> These women wanted untidy young children's issues

> kept out of their way. They had important things

> to do, such as make money to buy garbage they

> didn't need, but which let them know they'd

> arrived.

>

> Now that they have had kids, the same people who

> made no allowances for me or my contemporaries,

> appear to want everyone to notice how clever they

> are because they are now parents and their

> wants/wishes are expected to be catered for by

> everyone else.

>

> I don't really feel like catering for you or your

> kids. You didn't care about the mothers who came

> before you and the issues they faced.

>

> You need to stop acting like you are important

> just because you had a kid. This happens thousands

> of times every day to women all over the world.

> Stop shouting 'look at me' and just get on with

> it.

As a woman born in the 60's I couldn't agree more with your comment.

[LadyDeliah]

What I find funny about the women my age with kids my granddaughter's age, is that initially they seem to think I'm one of them and begin accept my into their cabal, but when they realise that I'm their age but have a 7 year old granddaughter, they recoil with the realisation that they nearly invited an 'imposter' in.

Gets me every time.

Getting back to the OP, I hope the new gardens has great coffee and huge amounts of space for buggies to encourage all the parents with small kids to go there instead of every pub, cafe and or restaurant in the area. I like kids, but not when they come in packs with parents who can't be arsed to control them because they think it's important that theirs are allowed to freely express themselves, even if that's running around a pub in circles, screaming.

[fuzzyboots]

I think Gymboreee is fab and will be an absolute asset to families wanting to chill out after a class there and they might well stay away from places where they have been made to feel less welcome. Win/win in my opinion.

[lisaloulou84]

Wow, lots of judgemental comments here aren't there! I have a bugaboo bee because its pretty much the smallest pram there is and so less likely to bother you all when I come into a cafe and won't run over your toes when I get on the bus. And if you find me lingering over a coffee on Lordship Lane annoying the hell out of you, its probably because a) The baby has just gone off to sleep and I need caffeine or b) we could both do with the fresh air. Both of these might bug you all even though my child is asleep and I'm contributing to our local businesses by buying a coffee, but I'm afraid the alternative is to go home and wake the baby by carrying the pram up the stairs, because while I'd love to just sit out in the garden with a cuppa, funnily enough finding a flat in East Dulwich on the ground floor with a garden when you're on statutory maternity is nigh on impossible!

So please don't tar us all with the same brush, we're not all there to annoy you, just trying to make the day a little smoother!

[MissDumpling]

LadyDeliah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> My problem with the mummy-buggy-brigade as they

> seem to have been named now, is that many of them

> remind me of the women who, 28 years ago sneered

> at me and made judgements because I was a young

> mother.

>

> There was no thought at that time, of making

> things easier for mother's with young children to

> stay socially involved in their communities.

> These women wanted untidy young children's issues

> kept out of their way. They had important things

> to do, such as make money to buy garbage they

> didn't need, but which let them know they'd

> arrived.

>

> Now that they have had kids, the same people who

> made no allowances for me or my contemporaries,

> appear to want everyone to notice how clever they

> are because they are now parents and their

> wants/wishes are expected to be catered for by

> everyone else.

>

> I don't really feel like catering for you or your

> kids. You didn't care about the mothers who came

> before you and the issues they faced.

>

> You need to stop acting like you are important

> just because you had a kid. This happens thousands

> of times every day to women all over the world.

> Stop shouting 'look at me' and just get on with

> it.

How unbelievably depressing and reductive this is. The women you are lumping together here are not a homogenous group with one world view. They are workers, sisters, daughters, friends. Individuals. The thing they have in common is that they're at the same stage of their lives, so have some shared needs.

How can you resent them all? Is it because they have nicer buggies than you did, or access to better coffee?

In reducing them all to a group to be judged and resented, you are no better than the women who judged you when you were a new mother. I welcome the daytime custom many of these women bring to our local shops and cafes. They're contributing to the local economy and they have an incredibly important stake in the local community. Why can't women be more supportive of each other and their choices?

[buggie]

MissDumpling Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> LadyDeliah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > My problem with the mummy-buggy-brigade as they

> > seem to have been named now, is that many of

> them

> > remind me of the women who, 28 years ago

> sneered

> > at me and made judgements because I was a young

> > mother.

> >

> > There was no thought at that time, of making

> > things easier for mother's with young children

> to

> > stay socially involved in their communities.

> > These women wanted untidy young children's

> issues

> > kept out of their way. They had important

> things

> > to do, such as make money to buy garbage they

> > didn't need, but which let them know they'd

> > arrived.

> >

> > Now that they have had kids, the same people

> who

> > made no allowances for me or my contemporaries,

> > appear to want everyone to notice how clever

> they

> > are because they are now parents and their

> > wants/wishes are expected to be catered for by

> > everyone else.

> >

> > I don't really feel like catering for you or

> your

> > kids. You didn't care about the mothers who

> came

> > before you and the issues they faced.

> >

> > You need to stop acting like you are important

> > just because you had a kid. This happens

> thousands

> > of times every day to women all over the world.

> > Stop shouting 'look at me' and just get on with

> > it.

>

> How unbelievably depressing and reductive this is.

> The women you are lumping together here are not a

> homogenous group with one world view. They are

> workers, sisters, daughters, friends.

> Individuals. The thing they have in common is

> that they're at the same stage of their lives, so

> have some shared needs.

>

> How can you resent them all? Is it because they

> have nicer buggies than you did, or access to

> better coffee?

>

> In reducing them all to a group to be judged and

> resented, you are no better than the women who

> judged you when you were a new mother. I welcome

> the daytime custom many of these women bring to

> our local shops and cafes. They're contributing to

> the local economy and they have an incredibly

> important stake in the local community. Why can't

> women be more supportive of each other and their

> choices?

Well done MissDumpling - you've said exactly what I'd have liked to far better than I could have.

[yeknomyeknom]

buggie Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> MissDumpling Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > LadyDeliah Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > My problem with the mummy-buggy-brigade as

> they

> > > seem to have been named now, is that many of

> > them

> > > remind me of the women who, 28 years ago

> > sneered

> > > at me and made judgements because I was a

> young

> > > mother.

> > >

> > > There was no thought at that time, of making

> > > things easier for mother's with young

> children

> > to

> > > stay socially involved in their communities.

> > > These women wanted untidy young children's

> > issues

> > > kept out of their way. They had important

> > things

> > > to do, such as make money to buy garbage they

> > > didn't need, but which let them know they'd

> > > arrived.

> > >

> > > Now that they have had kids, the same people

> > who

> > > made no allowances for me or my

> contemporaries,

> > > appear to want everyone to notice how clever

> > they

> > > are because they are now parents and their

> > > wants/wishes are expected to be catered for

> by

> > > everyone else.

> > >

> > > I don't really feel like catering for you or

> > your

> > > kids. You didn't care about the mothers who

> > came

> > > before you and the issues they faced.

> > >

> > > You need to stop acting like you are

> important

> > > just because you had a kid. This happens

> > thousands

> > > of times every day to women all over the

> world.

> > > Stop shouting 'look at me' and just get on

> with

> > > it.

> >

> > How unbelievably depressing and reductive this

> is.

> > The women you are lumping together here are not

> a

> > homogenous group with one world view. They are

> > workers, sisters, daughters, friends.

> > Individuals. The thing they have in common is

> > that they're at the same stage of their lives,

> so

> > have some shared needs.

> >

> > How can you resent them all? Is it because they

> > have nicer buggies than you did, or access to

> > better coffee?

> >

> > In reducing them all to a group to be judged

> and

> > resented, you are no better than the women who

> > judged you when you were a new mother. I

> welcome

> > the daytime custom many of these women bring to

> > our local shops and cafes. They're contributing

> to

> > the local economy and they have an incredibly

> > important stake in the local community. Why

> can't

> > women be more supportive of each other and

> their

> > choices?

>

>

> Well done MissDumpling - you've said exactly what

> I'd have liked to far better than I could have.

Absolutely agree!

[????]

Prejudice is largely ignorance and fear, and stereotyping is prejudice whoever it's aimed at...be proud 'labellers', you scared and angry people.

Ironic that people will champion their anti-racism say but makes broad generalisations about people based on I presume their accents and/or what buggy they push......

I have very rarely met any mum that fits into the utter generalised crap that people bleating on about the 'yummy mummy's" "Bugaboo briagde" etc," in East Dulwich or anywhere else, I presume if you 'look' for it you find it, cos that's what prejudice does...."there's a young mum in East Dulwich must be a self-obssessd yummy mummy" is about as intelligent as seeing young black kids as muggers

Pathetic.

[DuncanW]

Well said ??