New Shops in Dulwich / Peckham

[Louisa]

Quids they were forced out by the threat of gentrification in the future. Some of the old stall holders from the 70s/80s ended up down in Orpington. I'm sure they would love to come back but it seems the market is the exclusive haunt of posh people these days. Such a shame.

MrBen.... Silver? Really? And as for JSP glasses!? Horrific. The only thing I have in common with that woman is my outspoken nature, and love for people in general. I'm a warm person.

Louisa.

[nxjen]

Louisa Wrote:

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> Quids they were forced out by the threat of

> gentrification in the future.

>

This is such a load of rubbish!!! In the eighties there were only one or two stalls, and if anyone had even suggested then that East Dulwich might become gentrified at some stage the general response would have been "you what?" accompanied by much derisive laughter. Even in the nineties, after the Blue Mountain Cafe opened, there was still this utter astonishment that North Cross Road was becoming "trendy".

The main stall that remained in the 80s was a fish stall and he had a large sign on it that said "Support your local fish stall otherwise it will become a thing of the past". Sadly for that particular stall-holder that became reality but it does point to the reason for the demise of the "old" market, it was not supported by locals and was no longer relevant, unlike today's market which is popular and supported.

[jimbo1964]

Louisa Wrote:

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> Quids they were forced out by the threat of

> gentrification in the future.

>

This does sound like tosh. Why would a stall holder move out of an area because people with more disposable cash are moving in? I just think Orpington is one of those places that the white working class like to retire to.

[Peckhampam]

OK-I'm lost. When did Orpington come into the discussion?

[Jeremy]

MrBen Wrote:

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> I went to Yama Momo tonight.

Can you fill us in on the prices? The menu online says, for instance, "Sake - Salmon 4.10", "Hamachi - Yellowtail 4.65". I am assuming this is nigiri. Is that price for one piece or two?

[????]

Louisa Wrote:

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> Quids they were forced out by the threat of

> gentrification in the future. Some of the old

> stall holders from the 70s/80s ended up down in

> Orpington. I'm sure they would love to come back

> but it seems the market is the exclusive haunt of

> posh people these days. Such a shame.

>

>

> Louisa.

1/10...a bit laughable! Seriously rubbish answer or p1ss poor trolling, you decide

[Jeremy]

Perhaps Louisa's been reading too much Philip K Dick and got a bit carried away.

[Otta]

Everyone spoke Latin in Dulwich before the gentrification.

[Louisa]

Quids it's not trolling or a bad answer, you just disagree that's the reality. Check out Stratford in East London, the build up to the Olympics etc and pending gentrification was expected and promoted by estate agents which forced out lots of shop keepers and businesses because of the threat of rising rents. Now look at it, no gentrification, ridiculous rents and a Westfield shopping centre. In a nutshell, ED is no different.

I just checked back and the market was the first thing I spoke about on this forum in 2007 with Otta I believe.

Louisa.

[robbin]

Come on Louisa - "Reality"? Be honest - you made that up and it's far from reality - as has been pointed out (and as is pretty obvious on the face of your post!)

I do agree with you though that Stratford now has a lovely shopping centre that seems to be incredibly popular - every time I have been there it has been mobbed. I remember back in the day hating having to arrive in Stratford on the tube and walk through that vile smelly shopping 'centre' on the way to work. It was truly one of the worst places I have been in the UK. Not now. Onwards and upwards...

Keep up the trolling though - some of it is quite funny ; )

[MrBen]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> MrBen Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I went to Yama Momo tonight.

>

> Can you fill us in on the prices? The menu online

> says, for instance, "Sake - Salmon 4.10", "Hamachi

> - Yellowtail 4.65". I am assuming this is nigiri.

> Is that price for one piece or two?

Sorry...I didn't have the sushi! All i recall is this weird flaming scallop thing that burned blue flames for half an hour. And about ?85 for 2 starters, 2 mains (incl steak) and 2 large cocktails.

[jimbo1964]

Except without Westfield and the Olympics.

Stratford was always a dump and always will be. ED has always been a nice place to be and hopefully will remain so. That's why people want to move here.

[JohnL]

Some of the forum messages pre 2007 seem to say maybe it wasn't

I wasn't here then.

jimbo1964 Wrote:

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> Except without Westfield and the Olympics.

>

> Stratford was always a dump and always will be. ED

> has always been a nice place to be and hopefully

> will remain so. That's why people want to move

> here.

[Louisa]

East Dulwich was never a total dump like some of the now popular with hipster, gentrified places. It was just a no mans land with good housing stock and a dying high street thanks to Sainsburys opening on DKH. The perfect storm helped it become gentrified gradually. Other areas with rushed or forced gentrification never gel as a community. Its the spirit of the old ED which has prevented gentrification from totally destroying the close knit community nature of the place.

Louisa.

[jimbo1964]

Blimey. I agree with a whole Louisa post.

[robbin]

Me too! Except for the fact that I have no idea what her term "perfect storm" in this context means.

Oh, and the suggestion that it is the "spirit of the old ED which has prevented gentrification from totally destroying the close knit community.." sounds like utter nonsense too. Have we people who were here pre-gentrification, really converted all those ignorant newcomers to our community spirited ways?!

That all sounds rather patronising to me. I would give ED's newer residents more credit than that. It's not, Louisa, a particularly good community spirit to be so rude or patronising to our/your neighbours - is it?

[jimbo1964]

And just to steer the thread back on topic the reason why new shops are opening and the market is busy is that they can provide something that Sainsbury's can't like the much debated sourdough loaf. We even seem to be bucking the trend and driving betting shops out of town.

[jimbo1964]

Perfect storm might be houses that are about the right size in an area largely not ruined by estates and 60's town planning, nice local schools and green spaces. Add in a few decent pubs and restaurants and you've got yourself a storm.

[Louisa]

robbin Wrote:

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> Me too! Except for.....

Don't beat about the bush, if you disagree with me confront me on it!

> It's not, Louisa, a particularly good community

> spirit to be so rude or patronising to our/your

> neighbours - is it?

No you're quite right robbin, it's very rude of me. But I don't particularly give a toss tbh, that's how I feel! Your response is of course totally not patronising. Nice to know you love @?#%%# Stratford with its grotty Westfield so much. I think however, that's not gentrification that brought that about, it was more to do with big retailers cashing in on the Olympic effect :)

Louisa.

[Louisa]

jimbo1964 Wrote:

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> Perfect storm might be houses that are about the

> right size in an area largely not ruined by

> estates and 60's town planning, nice local schools

> and green spaces. Add in a few decent pubs and

> restaurants and you've got yourself a storm.

Absolutely jimbo!

Louisa.

[Otta]

robbin Wrote:

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> I remember back in the day

> hating having to arrive in Stratford on the tube

> and walk through that vile smelly shopping

> 'centre' on the way to work. It was truly one of

> the worst places I have been in the UK. Not now.

> Onwards and upwards...

The Stratford Centre is a bit shabby, but vile is a bit strong. There are a couple of interesting little places in there, and a good Chinese buffet place.

[robbin]

Louisa Wrote:

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> robbin Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Me too! Except for.....

>

> Don't beat about the bush, if you disagree with me

> confront me on it!

>

> > It's not, Louisa, a particularly good community

> > spirit to be so rude or patronising to our/your

> > neighbours - is it?

>

> No you're quite right robbin, it's very rude of

> me. But I don't particularly give a toss tbh,

> that's how I feel! Your response is of course

> totally not patronising. Nice to know you love

> @?#%%# Stratford with its grotty Westfield so

> much. I think however, that's not gentrification

> that brought that about, it was more to do with

> big retailers cashing in on the Olympic effect :)

>

> Louisa.

Yes, yes, but the point that appeared lost on you is not only that your suggestion (that we had educated all these awful newcomers) was patronising, but also that it was in essence obviously quite absurd. The notion that new residents are heathens who are converted to our community spirited way of life is all a bit daft isn't it?

But then, as you say you don't give a toss, I guess you are hardly likely to care if it is.

So, I'll give up now on that topic.

On the original topic, although the stall holders who Louisa says) fled to Orpington 30-40 years ago may have been a loss to the community still reeling from the recent decimalisation, I think the more recent stall holders from the last few years of this century now provide a good mix of goods to supplement the other traders in Northcross Road.

The street has a really nice feel on a Saturday. I can even get my bike fixed and have a hot dog while I wait! Nothing too much to complain about there and I have no doubt the good people of Orpington also felt all those years ago like they had benefitted from ED's loss.

[Jeremy]

The old Stratford shopping centre is at least better than the E&C shopping centre, or those strange arcade/malls in Peckham.

[robbin]

Otta,

You are right, "vile" is a bit strong. I accept that it might well have improved to shabby (or better) now. I was referring to 15-20 years ago when I went there regularly and the smell of fish and who knows what else seemed to linger in my nostrils for an hour after I arrived at work!

[Henry_17]

When I visited North Cross Road market quite recently there was a stage set up, and on it were two ladies in leotards having a great time.

As I arrived they began to perform Bonnie Tyler's I need a hero, except that as a twist they replaced the word hero with 'vino'. Vino means wine in Spanish and Italian, or cheap / low quality wine in English.

After the performance the lead singer confirmed that while she needed a vino, she would not be having one for some time, since she was pregnant.

The crowd were pleased throughout.