Grove tavern to reopen. Fact or fiction.

[Penguin68]

I think I noted that rate reliefs were available - you stated that they would 'avoid paying business rates' by claiming 'change from commercial to domestic use'. You have not established this. Indeed you have quoted 'reductions in business rates' - which is I think what I also said was happening. As business rates are there as a tax on commercial activity locally, then the virtual absence of such activity - and hence the reductions in 'costs' to the local authority in supporting such activity through necessary expenditure would suggest that the loss of business rates might also be mitigated by a loss of costs associated with having local businesses trading. And again, in many instances it is public buildngs, not just private commercial buildings which are being guarded. A reduction in business rates here presumably aids, rather than otherwise, the public purse.

[JohnL]

Anyway, maybe we should just keep on asking the question in the original title until it does :).

Has the Grove Tavern re-opened yet. NO

[rendelharris]

Calm down Penguin old chap, I'm just spending an idle moment chatting on a local forum, not presenting evidence to the high court! There's no need to lecture - "You have not established this, indeed you have quoted..." I'm simply quoting an article which I read on the subject, if that's wrong then so be it, but I really don't see the need to come over all Rumpole about it!

[Otta]

Haha.

[minder]

Rumpole or not, it's a shame the Tavern closed in the first place.

Had many a nice meal with family and friends there and their salad bar was lovely.

[steveo]

Was that before they put in the sneeze screen?

[Louisa]

It seems an update of some description here;

http://www.southwarknews.co.uk/news/65-sites-earmarked-development-new-southwark-plan/

"Dulwich

New Charter School and health centre on the former Dulwich Community Hospital

The vacant Grove Tavern to become a new care home, if a new pub, restaurant, or business doesn?t move in

Up to 118 homes built on the Guys and St Thomas Trust Rehabilitation Centre site, with the requirement that a health facility of ?at least? the current size is retained"

My heart sank when I read the bit about the Grove Tavern.

Louisa.

[DovertheRoad]

There's a huge shortage of good care home accommodation in South London though. Whilst I hate to see pubs close I can't help think that run this case it's a better use of the land and space than a huge pub by a very busy road that nobody really wanted to go to anymore after the trade moved to more footfall friendly locations.

[KidKruger]

wow - recipe for disaster with a care home next to a huge and busy road junction that has absolutely no provision for pedestrians. That will have to change.

[Siduhe]

I'd rather have a pub than a care home, but I'd rather have a care home than a redevelopment of 1/2 bed luxury flats which is what the Dulwich Estate appeared to be holding out for. Agree that pedestrian access would need to be improved a lot!

[rendelharris]

When I get old(er) I want to live in a care home that is also a pub. Is that possible?

Pedestrian access for the slower of foot/wheelchair users there would have to involve longer hold times at the lights or more crossings, both of which don't seem really practical given the congestion already present. Also, as older folk are particularly susceptible to the effects of pollution, is such a choked up junction the best place for a care home?

Just thoughts, I have no particular feeling about what the site should be - always very sad to lose a pub but the current derelict boarded up site is very depressing.

[Mick Mac]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> When I get old(er) I want to live in a care home

> that is also a pub. Is that possible?

>

Yes, just needs you and the fridge. And a mirror - for conversation.

[JohnL]

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> wow - recipe for disaster with a care home next to

> a huge and busy road junction that has absolutely

> no provision for pedestrians. That will have to

> change.

They'll go for the Trump solution. A huge wall along the south circular.

[rendelharris]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> rendelharris Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > When I get old(er) I want to live in a care

> home

> > that is also a pub. Is that possible?

> >

>

> Yes, just needs you and the fridge. And a mirror -

> for conversation.

That's my life now, pretty much. I want the same but with people bringing me dinner and making the bed.

[ladida]

Any danger that something similar to what happened to The Ivyhouse could be arranged. Everyone.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> KidKruger Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > wow - recipe for disaster with a care home next

> to

> > a huge and busy road junction that has

> absolutely

> > no provision for pedestrians. That will have to

> > change.

>

> They'll go for the Trump solution. A huge wall

> along the south circular.

...and Sydenham will pay for it.

[CaptainPugwash]

Something definitely needs to be done about making the junction safer for pedestrians - trying to cross at the junction is perilous and seems to require both timing and luck; there seemingly isn't even a slight delay to allow pedestrians a window of opportunity.

The boarded up pub is an utter eyesore. I was hopeful when I saw the court order for evicting squatters, but still nothing has been done. Why can't we just get the owners and operators of a decent pub chain, like The Three Cheers Pub Co. who operate The Rosendale etc., involved?

[Jennys]

Perhaps because nobody would go to the pub because it is really dangerous crossing the road at that point?

[CaptainPugwash]

Very good point - I certainly avoid crossing at that junction anyway, so would be even more keen to if I was on my way home from the pub...

[Sue]

I regularly do a long detour to avoid crossing the road there.

[hertburs]

It is a very sad indictment of the state that we are in that pedestrians and cyclists are unable to cross the road from one side of Lordship Lane to the other at The Grove Tavern because of the inadequacy of the crossing facilities. Crossing going Northwards towards East Dulwich, is particularly frightening as the view of traffic coming down The South Circular and turning left at Dulwich Common is effectively blind. How long do we have to wait for TFL and Southwark to sort this out? They made the situation even worse this Summer by removing the Advanced Cycle Lane Box that used to be there when the road was resurfaced.

[Pugwash]

Various approaches have been made by Southwark councillors past and present to TFL ( and also by MPs) but TFL will not budge.

[hertburs]

So if councillors and MPs can make no progress, To whom is TFL responsible?

[85volga]

OK aside from the cycling issues, the Grove is staying shut for the foreseeable future then , with no chance of rising from the ashes in some form or new guise ?

On the same vein the Half Moon in Herne Hill is progressing very well not far from completion perhaps a few months off if that.

[Gipsy Hill]

Southwark put for consultation their key development opportunity sites in Dulwich as:

? NSP35: The Grove Tavern, 520 Lordship Lane

(Indicative development capacity: 68 homes)

? NSP36: Guys and St Thomas Trust Rehabilitation Centre, Crystal Palace

(Indicative development capacity: 118 homes)

With the Site vision for redevelopment for The Grove Tavern:

The site must:

? Retain a pub. If there is no demand for a pub, an equivalent amount of employment

floorspace should be provided including shops, restaurants or bars with active ground floor

frontages.

Redevelopment of the site may:

? Provide new homes;

? Provide new extra care housing.

More details/consultation hub

https://consultations.southwark.gov.uk/planning-and-regeneration/new-southwark-plan/

Closes 28 Apr 2017