Is Homeopathy a sham?......... yes

[woofmarkthedog]

Queen of Dulwich Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Excuse me! I beg to differ.

>

> Homeopathy does work! I bet you have never and

> will never try it - that's ok. But I have...with

> astounding results. And to wind you up even

> further - I was given a homeopathic remedy in a

> very high potency (LM) which not many homeopaths

> work with anyway. It took him a week of checking

> the homeopathic "bible" before he send me the

> remedy and it was a 100% success. Not only did

> the symptoms clear up completely, they didn't

> return either :)

>

> However, it requires a very experienced practioner

> and that's where the problem starts - you can do a

> three year training course and still not know more

> than the mum who wants to treat her daughters'

> cold and looks up the remedies on the internet.

>

> To find an experienced homeopath is very rare.

>

> And to those of you who say it's all in the mind:

> A homeopathic remedy is cheaper than anything the

> conventional medical establishment has to offer.

> So even if it is a placebo (and we will never know

> for sure) I'd rather take that.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

They all say that...

Ohh I even feel better just writing this

W**F

*lets off huge amount of "rear air" ...."yes they said this would happen..... Parp.....nothing to worry about it's completely natural ".. Parpppppppppppp oh deary me !

[Rhedd]

It appears discussing Homeopathy is like discussing religion. Always leads to such a heated debate. Why such venom against it? What bad experience did you have LRon Hubble to make you start such a thread (I apologise if I have missed this already somewhere in the thread I have not had time to read all the ranting)

I love Homeopathy, wouldn't be without it.

[????]

Well it is like religon as there is no scientific proof it works

[Huguenot]

I've posted a response on this issue on your deceitful response on another thread.

I note that you make the same manipulative attempt to cover up your financial interest on this thread as well.

In short, through decpetion (such as you've already demonstrated) homeopaths commit several acts of villainy:

By misinterpreting or misrepresenting the outcome of clinical trials regarding homeopathic treatments, practitioners declare themselves incompetent.

By deceiving them about the effectiveness of treatments, homeopaths break moral codes of obtaining informed consent from patients and allowing them autonomy on treatment.

Independent research demonstrates its routine for homepaths to undermine evidence based medecine on subjects as varied as MMR, malaria and AIDS leaving the public exposed to fatal diseases.

Through demanding misplaced trust from patients, practitioners overlook symptoms of serious diseases and risk patients lives.

They undermine public faith in medecine, threatening the lives of thousands of people who they don't directly treat.

That enough for you? I think the lies and manipulations of homeopaths are an abolute outrage. You should be social pariahs.

[woofmarkthedog]

Oooooo....

Well, is Heroin homeopathy ?

Because it is natural & it blows your brains so I hear

Though it works so well that you can end up selling your Granny to "feel better"

Unlike NettleWhipTM. ( it's my very own made up Homeopatic cure all brand ) which does whatever you want it to.

Micheal Jackson used to love it daily, well until he died that is !

W**F

[LRon Hubble]

Rhedd,

My experiences with Homeopathy are irrelevant to its effectiveness, you should concentrate on learning how an what makes a good clinical trail and how to understand the results.

As usual theres a lame suggestion that i must of had a bad experience which, has nothing to do with whether Homeopathy works, its never been proven to work better placebo (water). You may well be well meaning but a combination of ignorance and arrogance towards medicine the human body and modernity, for someone claiming to be an expert and charging money is very disappointing.

Deceiving yourself is one thing... deceiving others is morally wrong.

I'll this simple for your so you understand:

PRACTICING HOMEOPATHY MAKES YOU MORALLY WRONG

LRon

[woofmarkthedog]

Yes...

My neighbor swears by her Homeopathic vets

That her two dogs & her pet pig have all died within the last year has done nothing dent her belief

She also swears that a ghost in the form of a monk visited her one night

Oh & then there was the "UFO orb" thingy.....

Other than that.......ermm..?

W**F

[Marmora Man]

1. MPs have recomme3nded the NHS cease funding homeopathy. Good for them.

2. Ben Goldacre's article on Homeopathy Guardian - Bad Science

[Simian]

@LRon Hubble - Interesting. You say homeopathy is placebo. Placebo tends to have a 25-35% success rate in many trials. Maybe the homeopaths are on to something...

As for morals, I question yours, I can't find many posts on this forum where you are doing anything other than on a personal quest to destroy homeopathy. Sad. I don't believe you'll solve any world problems if you succeed, so no Nobel prizes for you.

@Huguenot - your post above is the most deceitful and manipulative thing I've read all day. I'm sure you enjoyed being such a bully with your words. There's no Nobel prize for you either.

Usually it is a caring person who trains to become a therapist, doctor or nurse. I'm not impressed with your questioning the morality of a homeopath - they are trained therapists and they're in the business of helping people with their illnesses, even before the remedy is prescribed. They are doing their very best to COMPLIMENT existing conventional practitioners who are also doing their best to help people who are ill. In many cases, people will turn to complimentary therapies because the conventional approach has failed them or exposed them to side effects from the drugs they have been prescribed.

Yes. There are reasons to question homeopathic remedies and their efficacy, but there are also MANY MORE reasons to question the pharmaceutical industry. Because, boy are they deceitful! Boy are they manipulative! They know how to pull the wool over everyone's eyes. They know how to distort the results of clinical trials. They know how to market their chemicals. And the companys' give no guarantees on the safety of the long term use of their PRODUCT, so we the public, become their unwitting guinea pigs. Great if the drug really works as promised. Woe for those when it doesn't.

There are huge number of cases of pharmaceuticals causing harm to many many people, I'll point you all to the Ben Acre's brief article on the Merck Vioxx scandal as an example. Do a little googling and you'll find out Merk and their Vioxx caused a lot of unnecessary heart attacks. Not only that but Merck knew the risks of their PRODUCT long before it was observed by medical watchdogs. Now there's some real villainy. Maybe pharmaceuticals is your business, which would explain a lot. But if it isn't, then I'm sure the both of you would make a better world for us "simpletons" if you were to take on the large pharmaceuticals with your vindictive attitudes. And if you succeed, well I'll award you every Nobel prize there is...

x

[SeanMacGabhann]

Simian, do you also want to link to the many many many articles the same Ben (Gold)acre publishes trashing homeopathy?

No?

Here's one

and another

there are, of course many more

That doesn't make your point about big pharma companies invalid of course but that's irrelevant to the nature of medicines that work (eg the injection before dental work) and which work because they are tested and they work in trials... and then those that don't work, and don't work in trials, but are vouched for by "nice" people who don't want to accept things like regression to the mean

Last word again to Ben, and why promotion of homeopathy is morally wrong

ouch

[mockney piers]

" You say homeopathy is placebo. Placebo tends to have a 25-35% success rate in many trials. Maybe the homeopaths are on to something"

But that's rather the point isn't it. Placebo is a little understood and very powerful effect.

But homeopathy is simply dressing placebo up as something else. It's pretending to know something that it isn't.

It's pseudoscience of the worst sort and a multi billion dollar industry selling essentially snake oil (and people complain about 'allopathic' medecine, sheesh).

I've time for homeopathic hospitals, I really do, because they will have a good success rate with placebo. They spend time with patients, they explain what the 'treatments' are intended to do, they reassure and comfort, wrapping the sugared err sugar pill in, well, spiritual sugar. All good.

I just wish that's what GPs were able to do more often, hence why I think those resources are better spent allowing that level of service from those prescribing genuine medicine, and why homeopathy should be only in the private sector.

[HAL9000]

Simian Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> there are also

> MANY MORE reasons to question the pharmaceutical

> industry. Because, boy are they deceitful! Boy are

> they manipulative! They know how to pull the wool

> over everyone's eyes.

I agree entirely - beware the pharmaceutical industry.

> I'll point you all to the Ben Acre's brief

> article on the Merck Vioxx scandal as an example.

I've posted similar links within this recent thread: Dangers Associated With Cholesterol Drugs

P.S. Huguenot had a field day on that one :)

[louisiana]

The Science and Technology Committee report on homeopathy was published today.

http://www.parliament.uk/parliamentary_committees/science_technology/s_t_homeopathy_inquiry.cfm

Having watched much of the oral evidence to the committee a short while ago, I'm quite looking forward to reading it.

[Simian]

Thanks I've already read many many... I understand why you want me to read them. I posted on this thread because I didn't like the subtle personal attacks on character that were being used to a make a point. It's like watching a witchhunt unfold. I mean there are oddballs with eccentric, strange, or stalwart views in every area of society who give their profession/family/village etc a bad reputation. Continually tarnishing the rest of the profession/family/village with the same reputation just seems to come across as unecessary bigotry.

I take the same viewpoint as that of Charles Fort's on Forteana & Mainstream Science. It's an outlook on life that never ceases to entertain. And so my opinion on this subject is:

I believe that Homeopathy deserves time and funds to rethink itself, perform research, and deliver some grounded answers. It's survived to this day because of consumer support. Consumers don't have to be intelligient, or scientific, or blindly follow others opinion to know when something is not making them better. The consumer will stop consuming it and look for the next thing.

Even this thread and the strong feelings expressed will become tiresome soon, and no-one will wish to read it anymore... ;-)

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Simian, do you also want to link to the many many

> many articles the same Ben (Gold)acre publishes

> trashing homeopathy?

[Huguenot]

As a long term practitioner and participant, I'd like funding for my new treatment that involves breathing a mixture of nitrogen, oxygen, argon, carbon dioxide and various trace gases.

There are various documented quantum nano effects that trials have demonstrated prove effective in healthcare.

It has been comprehensively demonstrated that ALL patients who showed improvement over time breathed in this mixture, and that all patients who ceased taking it DIED.

This is because poisons have been dissolved in it, and then diluted until they have a negligible effect.

I offer various services including access to this treatment, and trained practitioners, all of whom paid for training and know charge their patients for services. I take a commission on these treatments.

This insight clearly requires time and funds from the public purse to rethink itself, perform research and deliver grounded answers. It's survived to this day because of widespread consumer support. Consumers do not need to be intelligent or scientific to know that this is making them better.

In the absence of evidence based science, people will believe in any product including leeches and burning witches.

[Huguenot]

BTW, having just read through the report, the conclusion of the committee was that homepathy claims are fraudulent and practitioners practise deception.

[HAL9000]

Huguenot Wrote:

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> This is because poisons have been dissolved in it,

> and then diluted until they have a negligible

> effect.

You forgot to mention the air guitar - indisputable proof that air retains a memory of everything it interacts with.

[louisiana]

Huguenot, I'm surprised at you. You omitted the incantation abracadabra. To be chanted thrice while dancing on one foot.

[Huguenot]

*hangs head in shame*

That aside, I tell you, this treatment is the absolute dogs nuts.

I'm wondering whether anyone would like to get together in a group and discuss it?

We could meet regularly. People who bring acquaintances could obtain knowledge stars, to demonstrate that they're insightful.

I've got a great book, with pictures and everything. As a published author, you need no greater evidence that I know what I'm talking about.

[david_carnell]

Hmmm....I'm worried Huguenot. Your therapy doesn't involve the consumption or use of dihydrogen monoxide like homeopathy does, does it? Because there are some things you should be aware of:

Dihydrogen monoxide:

is also called "hydroxyl acid", the substance is the major component of acid rain.

contributes to the "greenhouse effect".

may cause severe burns.

is fatal if inhaled.

contributes to the erosion of our natural landscape.

accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals.

may cause electrical failures and decreased effectiveness of automobile brakes.

has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients.

Beware. Dihydrogen monoxide is used extensively in homeopathic treatments. As you can see it is incredibly dangerous. Ban dihydrogen monoxide before it's too late!

[HAL9000]

Dihydrogen monoxide is also highly addictive - one shot leads to a lifelong dependency. Say NO to DHMO!

Also, when used in homeopathic remedies, dilution actually concentrates it - not many people known that!

[RosieH]

david_carnell Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hmmm....I'm worried Huguenot. Your therapy doesn't

> involve the consumption or use of dihydrogen

> monoxide like homeopathy does, does it? Because

> there are some things you should be aware of:

>

> Dihydrogen monoxide:

>

> is also called "hydroxyl acid", the substance is

> the major component of acid rain.

>

> contributes to the "greenhouse effect".

>

> may cause severe burns.

>

> is fatal if inhaled.

>

> contributes to the erosion of our natural

> landscape.

>

> accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals.

>

>

> may cause electrical failures and decreased

> effectiveness of automobile brakes.

>

> has been found in excised tumors of terminal

> cancer patients.

>

> Beware. Dihydrogen monoxide is used extensively in

> homeopathic treatments. As you can see it is

> incredibly dangerous. Ban dihydrogen monoxide

> before it's too late!

David, you didn't mention that it's also routinely used in both animal testing and human torture. Why is this not talked about? What have the homeopaths got to hide?

[Ladymuck]

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I've got a great book, with pictures and

> everything. As a published author, you need no

> greater evidence that I know what I'm talking

> about.

*whispers into Huguenot's ear*

Huguenot, Huguenot...you haven't mentioned the snake-oil of late...the snake-oil...or the seraphim...you are losing your touch...

*sniggers behind Huguenot's back but then loses complete control and collapses into full-scale laughter*

[andyxlandells]

got hold of a safety sheet for a well known homeopathetic remedy a few years back that had the statment in case of overdose drink water

surely given homeopathic water dilution theory this would mean the active ingredient would be more powerful

[LegalEagle-ish]

andyxlandells Wrote:

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> got hold of a safety sheet for a well known

> homeopathetic remedy a few years back that had the

> statment in case of overdose drink water

>

> surely given homeopathic water dilution theory

> this would mean the active ingredient would be

> more powerful

Lol, that's genius!