Is Homeopathy a sham?......... yes

[LRon Hubble]

dulwichdreadlocks

I do have issue's..... i have both a penis and a vagina can you recommend a homeopathic treatment.. im in a real fix.

Hubble

[antijen]

LRon

I already explained this, its about educating people who don't know that Homeopathy is pure placebo. If you already take them and you don't have the depth of character to contemplate that you might be wrong and do some research the subject... then fine carry on taking them...put them in whatever hole you like, they have the same effect or why not give the money you are going to spend on it to charity? see if that also makes you feel better.

The depth of character, how wrong can you be if it works for you, I believe regardless of what medicine you take you cannot seperate the physical from the psychological, and on some level we all must be responsible for our own health and healing.

[dulwichdreadlocks]

LRon Hubble Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> dulwichdreadlocks

>

> What are you asking? i clearly explained why as

> you say "so many people are up in arms about it".

> Are you now asking me why it doesn't work? this is

> not just my view its the view of the entire

> scientific community (im not exaggerating). pls

> look back through the thread, at my posts for

> links . This is really basic stuff ask your G.P.

> for his honest medical opinion.

>

> or just google.... "why homeopathy does not work"

> don't take my word for it.

>

> LRon

So what is the big deal? Do you lose money or feel pain each time somebody chooses to ignore what the scientists say and uses homeopathic remedies? I just don't understand why you seem so wound up about it.

[mockney piers]

"you cannot seperate the physical from the psychological, and on some level we all must be responsible for our own health and healing."

The first really sensible and intelligent thing I've heard from the pro-homeopaths, bravo.

[LRon Hubble]

Antijen,

if you believe its correct to live in ignorance then absolutely go ahead, sorry to be so blunt but that is what it is... as i have explained if this ignorance then forces public opinion and public money away from worthy causes, well then... its a problem.

ignorance can be bliss, i totally agree but someone has to keep it in check.

LRon

[dulwichdreadlocks]

weird...

[antijen]

L Ron I do believe your dabbling in sum of these horrible psychiatric drugs if not then maybe you need to be, you could always open your mind and try some mind altering alternatives

[LRon Hubble]

Hi antijen

don't panic, we are 2 people here man and women... quite sane.

LRon Hubble

[snorky]

There are lots of people who believe in it, there are many who believe in the cash that it generates

Its pseudo science cabal organised for profit by dirty filthy right wing greedy reactionary hippies and their hippie-lite kin.

the people at the bottom who buy the stuff may get a psycological lift from the process and thats where any benefit may lie - to argue abolutes when you are discussing a fairy tale is a bit pointless

[SimonM]

The real problems arise when a pair of parents who swear by snakeoil (or whatever) insist on treating their sick child by such illusory "methods"....

[Jeremy]

That is exactly the problem, SimonM. And by putting their faith (and money) into this nonsense, people are propogating and legitimising a so-called treatment which at best can only act as a placebo.

It's important not to lump all complimentary treatments together. It would be foolish to rule out the benefits of herbal medicines, and I'm even willing to accept that acupuncture may have benefits which are not yet understood by mainstream science. I was just reading about a guy called Edzard Ernst who is one of the few bona fide Professors of Complementary Medicine... many herbal remedies and a few other treatments have stood up to his research. But I think most of us can guess what conclusion he came to regarding homeopathy.

[mockney piers]

[andrewc]

If you are interested in placebo effects try Placebo by Dylan Evans

In his book he tries to explain how and not just why people get cured from snake oil.

The use of the mind to control the body can be useful. Before the invention of anaesthetic, hypnosis was used in the operating theatre. Hypnosis in this case was not an 'alternative', it was the only way of chopping a leg off without pain.

If homeopathic remedies are the only way to treat a certain condition then it should not be deemed alternative. However it could be deemed deceptive as the understanding of the process is patchy.

I suggest suggestion...it works well for Derren Brown.

[topstitch]

maybe thats another thread!

[bignumber5]

i can't be arsed to read all of this thread so forgive me if this point has already been made.

the physiology behind homeopathy is bollocks. fact.

the majority of illnesses have a psychological component, even if it's "i feel shitty since my heart attack". fact.

Psychological/psychiatric research has demostrated positive outcomes in a number of areas from an increased level of positive human interaction focussing on the subject of the illness, regardless of the direction or intended function of the interaction, or the skill or understanding of the interviewer (this is why psychiatry inpatient wards love medical students). fact.

homeopaths spend more face-time with their clients per session than most doctors, even if they are taking a history of utterly meaningless information in order to concoct a meaningless diagnosis. gp = 6 minutes, homeopath = however much time you pay for. fact.

many people who use homeopaths genuinely report feeling better. fact.

make of these facts what you will.

the theory of Homeopathy may be utter shite from start to finish, but the nature of the interaction between the practitioner (not, you notice, professional ;-)) and their client mirrors one that psychiatry recognises and values. this does not require insight from the client, so is equally valid in kids etc. Add in placebo for those that believe in the made up principles and there's a positive outcome to be had...

...even in the presence of scientific nonsense being practiced by morons.

[david_carnell]

Top post, SirBigNumber5.

Clear, concise, factually accurate and no bullshit.

Nice one.

[monica]

DD your points have been valid all the way, but may I give you some advice, there is no point disagreeing about Homeopathy with people who dismiss, comment and assume. I have been on this pathway with another person Just like the people you are disagreeing with, and its not worth it.

I know it works, you know it works opinions of the narrowminded should be ignored.

I am in my second year of Homeopathy, and I assure you its more then water.

[citizenED]

I agree, a great post BN5. Been trying to put together some sort of retort to the waves of negativity over homeopathy/alternative therapies that we always get from the "ration/logical" camp when this issue gets debated but could not come up with something as convincing as yours.

[SeanMacGabhann]

blimey citizen - yuo thought BN5's retort was positive re: homeopathy??

[LRon Hubble]

Monica,

If you've studied/ studying it could you please explain to us all just how it actually works? ... does it work supernaturally? because the science behind it is 100% phony.

citizen ED i think you should read that post again.

The homeopathy element of homeopathy treatment.....does not work. fact

LRon.

[Jeremy]

I thought BN5's response was kind of interesting... i.e. what's wrong with giving someone a placebo if it helps them - after all, the placebo effect is well documented, so if we can heal ourselves through a mental stimulus, why not?

It is a valid point, but doesn't address the issue I (and others) have raised, i.e. what happens when people trust this stuff over genuine medicines when they have something seriously wrong with them?

Monica - I'd also be interested to hear what is in these remedies apart from the dilutant.

[LRon Hubble]

There's is no harm in taking homeopathy treatments, there is great harm in taking them instead of conventional medicine. There is also great harm in promoting the magical thinking homeopathy infers..

http://whatstheharm.net/homeopathy.html

The link describes unfortunate cases in which harm was done....

LRon

[mockney piers]

and can water be infused with memory using a wav file?

[monica]

Lron may I suggest you read a book called Homeopathy for the sceptic. I only post on here when I have cause to, this thread has given me cause to post. I also Suggest you read the Lancet.

LRon We all have a right to our opinion, we are a democratic society, however your approach is aggressive, Dismissive and just rude. You remind me of another poster on here who has the same approach.

[LRon Hubble]

ok, but how does the homeopathy element work, is it magical?

>

>

>P.S From Lancet:

The Lancet, the respected UK-based medical journal, has published its conclusions about homoeopathy after examining findings from 110 homoeopathy trials and as many trials of conventional medicine. "There was weak evidence for a specific effect of homeopathic remedies, but strong evidence for specific effects of conventional interventions - this finding is compatible with the notion that the clinical effects of homeopathy are placebo effects."

The study's lead author and statistical analyst Matthias Egger of Switzerland's University of Berne wrote "We acknowledge that to prove a negative is impossible, but we have shown that the effects seen in placebo-controlled trials of homeopathy are compatible with the placebo hypothesis."

In its editorial, The Lancet urged doctors to tell their patients about the absurd dilutions on which homoeopathy lays its claims (the weaker the solution the more effective the medicine is claimed to be), and the lack of benefits of taking homeopathic medicines. The editorial also recommends that doctors take more time to connect with patients rather than just prescribing and forgetting.

Reuters News Agency reports that the 200-year old system of alternative medicine has been showing increased sales. In Britain alone, sales of homeopathic medicines have grown by a third in the past five years to ?32 million pounds in 2004.