General Election 2015

[Blah Blah]

I agree miga. And it's the tinkering that annoys me personally. It's meaningless if it changes nothing in reality.

I work with people with problems that are exacerbated by the lack of 'standard floor', and yes, that stardard has been lowered and lowered. It's very frustrating. There's a layer of society that is being left destitute and without hope, many of them made ill by it. We should care about those people, but we should also look at solutions that work, instead of cutting resources and making solutions that work impossible to deliver.

But equally, there's a layer of people who should be able to do ok, but for whom the future also looks bleak, unless the gap between wages and the cost of things like housing narrows.

[Blah Blah]

It was 60p under Thatcher Jeremy. 50p doesn't seem so bad really.

[miga]

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[miga]

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[Jeremy]

miga Wrote:

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> But not a kneejerk reaction the Tories would have

> had under the same circumstances.

I'm sure you're right.. but that's beside the point. You said that Labour promised fairer wealth distribution and didn't deliver. I was simply saying that I'm not sure it was really one of Blair's core aims.

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> It was 60p under Thatcher Jeremy. 50p doesn't seem so bad really.

Again I'm sure you're right, but by no stretch of the imagination was I trying to suggest that Brown was worse than Thatcher!!

[miga]

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[Jeremy]

Article also says that the word "redistribute" had previously taboo within New Labour... which I think neatly backs up my point.

[Loz]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> miga Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Gordon Brown, 50p top rate of tax

>

> Surely a knee jerk reaction to the financial crisis rather than an integral "New Labour" policy...

I wouldn't even credit him with that. After 13 years of Labour, it was introduced one month (!!!!) before an election that Brown pretty much knew he was going to lose. It was nothing but a big bear trap set for the Tories... which Osborne blundered straight into.

Interestingly, the main result of the 50% rate seems to be to reduce the number of people declaring earnings over ?1m by an amazing two thirds down to 6000. The Laffer curve in action?

[Blah Blah]

If that article is true Loz, that's pretty shocking! But how do we tackle greed? How do we change the mentality of those millionaires? We don't seem to be able to close tax loopholes/ havens etc. That's why I do agree with the mansion tax in principle. People/ corporations can't hide property offshore. They can't hide land either. It's just a case of getting the details/ thresholds right.

[miga]

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[Jeremy]

Erm.. is that aimed at me?

[Bic Basher]

Have any of the local candidates actually canvassed at your door yet?

So far, I've had Helen Hayes, the Labour PPC knock and discussed policy for 15-20 mins. Pretty convincing, but nothing from the other parties yet.

[steveo]

Are you allowed to irrationally hate people?

[Henry_17]

Bic,

Yes, we had Resham Kotecha and James Barber some time back. No one else since though.

[miga]

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[JohnL]

A lot of people still feel Blair did promote equality and deliver - whatever his other failings. Brown/Cameron followed through with things such as gay marriage - that were really instigated by Blair's government.

I know a few people who even still support Liberal Interventionism as the morally right thing to do (it actually worked in Sierra Leone against the West Side Boys - maybe that was what confirmed Blair on that course).

[Loz]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> If that article is true Loz, that's pretty shocking! But how do we tackle greed? How do we

> change the mentality of those millionaires? We don't seem to be able to close tax loopholes/

> havens etc.

I would argue that any marginal tax rate higher at than 50% or higher (and, with NI, this is 52%) is too much. And such a steep jump of 10% merely made it more obvious. The boiled frog analogy is relevant here. Had the marginal rate been ramped up more slowly then the story might have been different. If someone earns more that sort of money, then you are being asked to pay more than ?100k a year more tax - and you can get yourself a very good tax accountant for much less than the extra tax bill.

The Laffer curve is a controversial theory, but this sort of example does show that higher tax rates do not always lead to increased revenue. People react in they way they can. If the government raised all income tax rates by 10% tomorrow there would be riots in the streets. Those with more money merely find other ways to 'rebel'.

But I agree that closing loopholes is key. Brown (as chancellor) doubled the handbook of tax legislation - i.e. made the tax system much more complex. Complexity means loopholes, so simplifying the tax system would be a good start. But most of the loopholes at corporate level come from the international accounting conventions, and they will take a lot to change. Perhaps, in the internet and multinational age, we have to look at a different way of taxing corporations. The current system does seem to be broken.

[Blah Blah]

That's a very sensible post Loz. Can't disagree with any of it.

The conservatives have also pledged to take those on minimum wage out of income tax. Sounds good but equally problematic, when a salary hits the min tax threshold. And of course, for every penny lost through income tax receipts, we either have to increase tax elsewhere, or cut public services. So the poorest are screwed either way.

I still think there hasn't been enough emphasis on helping small businesses from any of the parties. One way to beat multi-national corporations is to invest in home grown businesses surely? We seem to still invent plenty of things, but end up losing the technology to companies abroad who have the required investment to develop them.

[MrBen]

I agree 100% with you Blah Blah on policies for SMEs. Entrepreneurs Relief is very generous and looks likely to remain whichever party swings it...that said further business level tax concessions would be valuable...especially for the tech sector. Small businesses account for 99% of all private sector businesses in the UK and employ something like 15M people.

I've always had a lifelong preference for Labours values but I doubt their economic and leadership credibility enough this time round to vote elsewhere.

[MrBen]

More affordable homes, raising the minimum wage to ?8.70, a 50% tax for the highest earners and a mansion tax. Take out their policy push for independence and SNP policies actually look decidedly like the old Labour many voters with Labour values want a return to.

[numbers]

She's been described as the best leader Labour never had, if only her head hadn't been turned by Nationalism.

Anyway despite the fact I loathe the paper, I thought this article was worth a read.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/article4415304.ece

[maxxi]

MrBen Wrote:

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> Take out their policy push for

> independence and SNP policies actually look

> decidedly like the old Labour many voters with

> Labour values want a return to.

Which is exactly what she's banking on. "This election is not about independence-" my arse.

[Otta]

Tend to agree with maxxi. I like the look of the SNP policies (no prescription charges would be awesome), bit as my missus said to me, they are a nationalist party who are currently pushing a left wing agenda,not a left wing party. Their main thing is nationalism, end of.

That said, I liked this

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/20/britain-criminally-stupid-race-immigration

[red devil]

Nationalism + Socialism...where have I heard that before? ;-)

[MrBen]

My view: Scotland will get independence in the long term anyway. Shorter term we already know greater devolution is on the cards. That being so, is this not the best get out Labour have ever had to reinvent and reposition itself?

Labour is now finished in Scotland anyway as a younger generation of voters emerge. Strategically, it has to do something.