Corporal punishment.

[Keef]

Going back to the original question, I think it's totally wrong in schools. I'm not for it in the home either, but what right does a bloody teacher have to hit someone else's kid? With regards to Nunhead, I think it's sad that a place only has a beautiful burial ground going for it.

[????]

It never strikes (see what I did there) as right in adult life so why the F8ck is ok to hit kids?

[woofmarkthedog]

Why physically hit out someone.....nobody really feels better after & If you do shame on you.

It's far more important to inspire self discipline in a society, to get people to see their errors and correct them selves.

Much better that than lashing out I think.

Also agree with Wolfie.....for the greater good and all that

W

[Mick Mac]

I have a real issue with smacking of kids, it disgusts me. I hope within a few years it will be made illegal. Parents have to encourage good behaviour in their children in more positive ways.

[Brendan]

Oh bollocks.

There is nothing wrong with smacking children if done appropriately and likewise there is nothing wrong with deciding to not do so if you have other ways of properly instilling discipline.

There is however a lot wrong with either not instilling discipline or just bullying kids and using discipline as your excuse.

Unfortunately this world is too full of fuckwitted shitehawks who think they have some kind of fundamental right to plop sprogs out of their nether regions but are incapable of telling the difference between the aforementioned concepts.

[PeckhamRose]

I have a problem with smacking kids.

My problem is I don't have any so I would have to find someone else's kids and they probably wouldn't like it.

If I was a qualified experienced teacher who was in charge of a heap of kids who were being rude, disrespectful, had crap home lives with parent/s who had NO idea how to bring them up and gave them crisps and coca cola for breakfast to eat on the bus and who knew nothing but anger and foul language at home, and they came to school to be in my class...

I'd leave the profession as have two of my good friends, neither of whom coincidentally chose to have kids of their own!

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Brendan Wrote:

... this world is too full of fuckwitted

> shitehawks .....

LOL...To be filed and stored under "Forum Classics".

I trust you will allow me to plagirise that comment Brendan...

[*Bob*]

Young *Bob* receives a sound beating (with a cricket bat) a few times a week and it certainly hasn't done him any harm. It's the most natural thing in the world - especially when I'm a bit pissed, or I've had a bad day and need someone to take it out on.

I'm assured that (despite being a toddler) he fully understands that it's only for his own good, that it hurts me more than it hurts him and that he is sure to grow into a well-rounded adult who will use his brain first and not his fists.

If they change the law I shall move to another country where I can freely beat my children at will. Will the last person to leave England (who wants to be able to beat their children with the full sanction of the law) please switch the lights off on the way out?

[Strawbs]

I am completely against smacking, I didnt got to a school where the teacher had a right to hit or physically discipline me and my mother only smacked me twice and that was when I was a completely out of control teenager, I had absolutely pushed her to her limits but its no excuse..

I dont think any teacher has the right to be physical in any way with a student, you are there to teach and there are many other ways of disciplining children. Smacking is for the weak who think it is ok to exert power in that way.

Dont worry SM about those trolls, we love you!!

[Mick Mac]

Oh bollocks.

There is nothing wrong with smacking children if done appropriately

What a pathetic attitude to children Brendan. Children look up to their parents and the shock of being "smacked" by a parent will probably stay with them for a long time. Children have a right to expect encourangement from their parents.

[Moos]

I agree with Mick Mac. A very small child has no understanding whatsoever of cause and effect. If, for example, your child bites someone and you bite the child to 'show them what they've done' (as I've heard of more than one parent doing), all the child will understand is that you've hurt it, and it won't understand why.

If you smack an older child then you are teaching it that an appropriate response to bad behaviour is to offer physical violence. Yes, there's a lot of difference between a slap and a punch, but it's the same ballpark.

[mockney piers]

I hate myself but did anyone catch Britain's got Talent? It was my first and will remain my only experience, however there was an interesting moment when 2 youngsters (15-16ish) did a dance routine that they'd sorted down the youth centre of their estate.

Now I'm all for encouragement and keeping kids out of trouble, but there needs to be some sort of realism with encouragement. These kids had obviously been praised to the point where they thought they were good (and believe me they were dreadful) and reacted rather mouthily to the judges, actually they rejected the notion that they weren't good enough, it was the world's issue, not theirs (Dulwichdoll springs to mind).

Not entirely sure where I'm going with this, but as wonderful as love and encouragement are, alone they don't prepare anyone for the harsh realities of the world.

Now this should in now way condone a good slap, and until I do have kids it's tough to say where I stand, as some level of discipline I think must be necessary.

From my own experience Dad's anger was terrifying in it's own right though he would never be violent with it. He did briefly experiment with a slap to the hand with a ruler but gave up when it was obvious that it was in no way a deterrent as revealed by the surprised "is that it?" look and smug grins on mine and my brother's faces with the realisation that that was all we got for our naughtiness and avoided nasty punishment like loss of tv/video game rights etc.

[daizie]

is it repeated, ?

[mockney piers]

probably ad nauseum

[Mick Mac]

I don't believe there is any correlation between physical punishment and good behaviour, good bahaviour can be achieved with good discipline re bad behaviour and encouragement re good behaviour. My own children are, so far, very well behaved and respect others. I expect that to continue.

Children should trust in their parents and yet always know who is boss. Children should always do what their parents ask. Parents can be firm without resorting to violence.

MP - you are assuming that the children you see on TV behave that way becasue they lack physical discipline - I would argue they behave that way because their parents have no moral code.

[mockney piers]

"MP - you are assuming that the children you see on TV behave that way because they lack physical discipline"

Actually I wasn't arguing anything there about discipline, more that as wonderful as love and encouragement are, it should be tempered by a reality check. You can't just give unconditional positive affirmation otherwise they end up with unrealistic self image and expectations of life.

Discipline is also necessary, but as I said attempts at physical discipline on myself achieved nothing and were abandoned immediately.

"because their parents have no moral code" That's a bit harsh. They were mouthy, but I don't think they were necessarily bad kids, I suspect their parents weren't very polite, but immoral or amoral is somewhat pushing it.

Mind you on reflection I had pretty good parents who were good examples with a strong moral code, that didn't stop me from being a pyromaniac little oik who drunk and took drugs from a pretty early age, and it didn't really do too much harm, I'm mostly a pretty normal member of society.

[louisiana]

bigbadwolf

I would like to slap some police officers around.

Is this wrong?

[Mick Mac]

Ok - yes - I see your point MP - you are saying too much encouragement can be a bad thing? If thats your point then I agree. Its part of this "you can achieve anything if you believe in it attiude", which can be good but also can give children false hope and they then struggle to deal with failure.

If however the kids were "mouthy" I'd suggest they have not been taught to deal with authority and this attitude will cause them problems in their working lives.

My point was that in general poor behaviour can reflect poor parenting and poor moral / behavioural guidance of parents.

[mockney piers]

Indeed, indeed.

Still, I did enjoy seeing Simon Cowell briefly lost for words!

[Brendan]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> What a pathetic attitude to children Brendan.

> Children look up to their parents and the shock of

> being "smacked" by a parent will probably stay

> with them for a long time. Children have a right

> to expect encourangement from their parents.

If you?re smack a child in order to shock them or exercise some kind of power over them you are missing the point completely and don't understand discipline. Likewise you should never hit a child in anger. There is a difference between discipline and abuse.

All the most robust, truly decent and kind people I know come from homes with decent robust parents who, as well as supporting and encouraging them, used a proper system of discipline. Corporal punishment was an optional part of this even if it was rarely or even never used.

But if the type of people who think that biting a child to show it what happens when it bites someone else or give a kid a good smack because they have pissed them off insist on reproducing then we are probably better off banning it to protect the children from these idiots.

[BigPhil]

corporal punishment

in the home --- smack on the bum yes

smack around the head no

in the school --- strap on the hand yes

cane for boys yes

when I was at school , if I was caned , i would have to take a note to my parents to inform them i was caned.

we also had the choice, afterschool detention or 2 canings per detention , i had an afterschool job and rugby practice so always opted for the caning ( 3 times in 4 years )

The prospect of the cane was a deterant for lots of boys, now there is no deterant so lots more kids go off the rails ( im guessing here , no solid fact on this)

[Moos]

At the risk of sounding moronic, Mockney - duh.

If it was my post that sounded as though I was advocating a blissful life of encouragement and love as the be-all and end-all of parenting, then allow me to clarify. (I'm a little surprised that a disavowal of physical punishment could be equated with an absence of discipline, but hey ho.) I think that even very young children need boundaries, clearly laid out and consistently applied - my personal experience - so far!!! - suggests that this is needed from under a year old.

[mockney piers]

Apologise that my point was so obvious it didn't require stating, as a non-parent I shall butt out this thread as clearly out of my depth *retires and licks wounds from non-violent disciplining*

[*Bob*]

**anecdote**

At junior school 'the taws' (a leather strap of some description) was reserved for the most serious offender. I only saw it used once, when a boy had paddled an inflatable out on the local pond to the little mounds where the ducks nested, and 'interfered with Canada Goose eggs'.

So The Taws was administered to a boy of 9, in front of the entire school, in morning assembly. I'm 36, in case anyone's wondering. Unbelievable, thinking back on it.

***

You see parents clobbering their kids willy-nilly for what seem like the most minor of transgressions. You have to wonder where and when they started getting it so wrong.

[Moos]

mockney piers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Apologise that my point was so obvious it didn't

> require stating, as a non-parent I shall butt out

> this thread as clearly out of my depth *retires

> and licks wounds from non-violent disciplining*

Sorry if was sharper than intended, am in bad mood today. However, wasn't at all intended to imply that non-parents shouldn't have a view - as you said, your own views were formed by the actions of your parents, what you see around you, and what you read. I do think it was valid for me to put in what I have found from being a parent (although I'm a very inexperienced one) but it's only one facet of why I think what I think. I wasn't playing the ace, so don't play the joker.