Refurb of the Castle on Crystal Palace Road

[Moos]

James, it's pretty arrogant to suggest that people who grew up here should just up sticks and slope off. Generally speaking I think that raising class on the forum is a waste of time but in this instance I'm with Louisa.

[James]

I'm not suggesting that! The point I'm making is that we are not living in the 1950s. People of all classes and backgrounds move about, especially in a place like London.

Are you suggesting we impose a quota system for pubs with net curtains and horse brasses?

[TJ]

I am still failing to understand how anyone can really be concerned about a place being smartened up?

If by painting a building to make it look like someone cares, a customer feels alienated, surely that customer just needs a slap in the chops and be told to stop being a twat?

[Moos]

James Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm not suggesting that! The point I'm making is

> that we are not living in the 1950s. People of all

> classes and backgrounds move about, especially in

> a place like London.

>

> Are you suggesting we impose a quota system for

> pubs with net curtains and horse brasses?

Nice.

No, I'm suggesting that 'If you don't like ED smartening up why not move to Penge or North Peckham instead?' ignores some feeling that people may have about remaining in the place they grew up in, and perhaps finding it difficult to adjust to social changes. Try to put yourself in the shoes of someone who was born here and has lived here all his life, and is told - well, if you don't like it nowadays, move to Penge.

[James]

Okay well I went back to my home town the other week and they had refurbished some awful old pub.

HOW DARE THEY do this without asking my permission first?

[Moos]

Gosh, your old town that you don't live in any more? What WERE they thinking?

[James]

Whereas if I still lived there they would be obliged to ask me permission

[Brendan]

gerald wellington Wrote:

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I used to hate the plough and

> was happy when it was refurbed, but my next door

> neighbour who used to go there a lot

True but the Plough was a different story. It had a bad rep for letting underage drinkers in and various other things then it was taken over by new owners who intentionally tried to clean it up. Even so there are still many of the same face in there now as there were 3 years ago.

The Mag was bought by someone who had a specific idea for a more food orientated pub.

The Castle?s owners are just doing some general upkeep.

Like wot they did in the CPT a while back. I just hope they avoid the god awful wallpaper.

[Moos]

For goodness' sake. But I'm sticking to my guns on this one.

No. They wouldn't have to ask your permission, and I did not say that, as you well know.

But my post was to say that I thought your response of 'if you don't like it, move out' was arrogant and inappropriate, and nothing you've said since has reversed my opinion.

[James]

I think it's a bit arrogant and patronising of certain middle-class types to rally to the cause of scruffy working men's boozers personally. Especially as many of these people never actually set foot in them.

[Moos]

I haven't got a point of view on the Castle, and if you read my posts you'll see I haven't offered one. My comment was never about pubs at all.

Good if disingenuous leading of the point away from the discussion in question again, and a nice play of the 'you disagree with me, we're both middle class, so you must be patronising' card.

[macroban]

I don't want to move out of East Dulwich. It's my home with decades of memories.

[MrBen]

What pubs do they let you into these days Macroban?

[Jeremy]

Hey James, you don't like traditional pubs, we understand that! But you know... not everyone has the same tastes.

[bignumber5]

some fine flaming abound, good work chaps...

I can see the headlines now:

Pub gets new lick of paint

locals concerned about migratory patterns of varied socioeconomic groups

when we painted our house we weren't attempting to attract a socioeconomically different dinner guest, it was just looking a bit shabby and needed painting. I have a feeling that pubs are free to do the same thing for the same reason, without collar-colour, chavdom, middle-classedness or any of this other nonsense getting into the equation. Fresh paint does not a culture-defection make.

I'm not personally a fan of this place, but I fully support their right to decorate...

[Brendan]

You?re fooling yourself mate. The right to decorate has been stolen from us. We are living a dystopian present where moral dictatorship through public discussion supersedes our previously held dear rights to self determination over emulsion and interior fittings. If we don?t act now soft furnishings will be the next to go.

[gerald wellington]

James -- that comment may or may not be directed at me, but in any case I think it is simple a question of personal taste. I am certainly what most people would regard as middle class, but I like pubs to be pubs not restaurants. I don't especially care for places like the old Plough -- it was a dump and the beer was off -- or the old Lord Palmerston -- same. Scruffy pubs that sell good beer and are capable of appealing to a broad clientele -- like the CPT, IMO -- are what I am after. A lick of paint for the Castle will be a good thing if it is just that, and I don't think we should be too worried about whether it's right or wrong for people of a certain background to say things about certain types of places on the basis of being seen to be arrogant due to class.

Anyway, this has all been a lot of fun.....beer anyone?

[James]

Maybe they should turn the Castle into a gay bar? That would cause a bit of a stir!

[Jah Lush]

I like the Castle and have been an infrequent visitor since the late 70s when the local football team I played for used to have our after training meetings there.

I was in there recently with a couple of friends for a few games of pool and a few drinkies and all that needs doing with it is new carpet throughout, a lick of paint and get the toilets cleaned up because they stink. Other than that it's a fine establishment, a bit of a rough diamond if you like, that sells the best Guinness in Dulwich and long may it continue to be so.

[James]

It needs disco balls, flock wallpaper and plasma screens. Trust me.

[Jah Lush]

Disco balls and flock wallpaper are so passe. A couple of plasma screens for the sport wouldn't go amiss though.

[Mick Mac]

used to show celtic games. No more. Have not been there for about 4 years and stopped going because it was so dirty. Yes good guinness though.

[Keef]

My friend told me that the same woman still owns the place, but I believe she's getting rid of her manager, and putting someone new in (possibly my friend's wife, which is why he knew all this).

James, sometimes your comments are really rude towards people. Has anyone from The Castle ever given you reason to disrespect them in this way?

Louisa, when you say it's the only proper pub left, I have to stick up for the CPT. Despite some new wallpaper, the old Lounge bar is the same as it was when I was born in the late 70's, and the "public bar" side it still pub like.

Admittedly I preferred the old tables and chairs to the new sofas, but it is certainly still a proper pub.

[Sporthuntor]

Guys James is pulling your collective chains. Just ignore him and he can go and show off somewhere else...

[Keef]

I have always liked James, but he is very quick to fire off the term "chav" in a negative way.