Pro life?

[????]

Your family are traitors BBW - My nan married an Italian from Bermondsey (who died of TB - sadly for him luckily for me) and her dad didn't speak to her for a while on account of the Bermondsey bit

[Santerme]

Chick Wrote:

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> So the pro life, anti abortion, pro death penalty,

> pro war Christians in Kansas have murdered a

> doctor, how does that square?

As someone who spends three months or more in North America, I find it pointless discussing this with them, they are for or against.

Luckily, there is still a majority who think logically.

But this is a perennial election issue.

The Republicans instead of calling out all the pro-choice Democrats should direct their anger at the pro-life Republicans who use this issue to fire people up every election cycle and then pretty much do nothing to try and change the law while they're in office.

I mean before Obama, they had pro-life presidents for 20 of the last 28 years.

Congress and the Senate have had Republican majorities for many of those years also.

Plus, 7 of the 9 Supreme Court Justices were appointed by Republicans.

Why no push to overturn Roe v Wade (legalosed abortion within limits) by those guys?

I personally only hear these elected pro-lifers talking about abortion during elections.

I feel that pro-life politicians want and need abortion to remain legal.

It's a very valuable hammer they hold while running for office.

There are many, many people in the US who vote Republican ONLY because of the abortion issue.

In fact, I feel many vote against their personal best interests in order to cast a vote for pro-lifers.

There are probably a few who vote for a candidate simply because they are pro-life, but those numbers are dwarfed by the other side

http://abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=7722869&page=3

By LAUREN SHER, SARAH NETTER, BRIAN COHEN and EMILY FRIEDMAN

June 1, 2009 ?

Scott Roeder, the man accused of shooting Dr. George Tiller in church, was so vehement in his anti-abortion views that he made even his militant allies nervous.

Roeder is expected to be charged today with homicide for the shooting death Sunday of Tiller, one of the few doctors in the country willing to perform late-term abortions.

Roeder, 51, has a history of being one of the most outspoken anti-abortion militants in the country, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, an organization that tracks supremacist and hate groups. One of the groups that the SPLC kept an eye on was the anti-government Freemen movement, of which Roeder was a member.

"[Roeder] wanted to do something about abortion," said Morris Wilson, who was close with Roeder during the late 1990s when both men were associated with the Freemen movement.

"He was determined," said Wilson. "He made me nervous because he was just so, so radical."

In 1996, Roeder was charged in Topeka with criminal use of explosives for having bomb components in his car trunk and sentenced to 24 months of probation. However, his conviction was overturned on appeal the next year after a higher court said evidence against Roeder was seized by law enforcement officers during an illegal search of his car.

At the time, police said the FBI had identified Roeder as a member of the Freemen, which had kept the FBI at bay in Jordan, Mont., for almost three months in 1995-'96.

Heidi Beirich, a spokeswoman for the SPLC, said that the Freeman movement has been dormant in recent years and that the group has not been categorized as a functioning group since the late 1990s.

"The Freemen has its heyday in the 1990s," she said. "They were an extreme anti-government group that did not believe for example that the government had the right to decide what people should do in terms of guns or taxes."

At least one of Roeder's former militants doesn't believe he did anything wrong.

Ex-Freeman Accused of Shooting Tiller

Regina Dinwiddie, a Kansas City anti-abortion activities who became famous when she was ordered by a federal judge in 1995 to stop using a bullhorn within 500 feet of any abortion clinic, said that she had protested alongside Roeder and remembers him fondly.

"I think the Scott Roeder that I know is a very pleasant and intelligent young man," said Dinwiddie, reached at her home in Kansas City, Mo.

Asked whether she thought Roeder was capable of murder, Dinwiddie said that she doesn't think Tiller's death was murder.

"I don't think whoever shot Tiller shot anybody," Dinwiddie said. "I think Tiller was stopped from killing the babies that would have died today. I think whoever shot him just stopped a cold blooded serial murderer in their tracks."

Dinwiddie said that she knew Roeder did not "like people killing babies," but was "very pleasant" and had a "good heart."

Roader's ex-wife, Lindsey Roeder, told police searching her home Sunday that her husband was likely involved in Tiller's death.

Lindsey Roeder said it was Scott Roeder's strong anti-abortion views that led to the couple's 1996 divorce. She said her ex-husband never kept quiet about his views on abortion.

"My family does not condone or support what Scott has done. This event is a tragic and senseless one and our thoughts and prayers are with the congregation and the doctor's family," Lindsey Roeder said.

Lindsey Roeder said Scott Roeder was adamant about seeing his 22-year-old son, Nick, Friday night. She claimed their son has tried to avoid his father and only saw him about once every six weeks growing up.

"My son is only related to his father by blood and does not believe in any of the same views his father does," Lindsey Roeder said.

The two did meet Friday night, she said, and she believes the meeting was meant as a goodbye from father to son.

Tiller's lawyer and friend, Lee Thompson, told "Good Morning America" today that Tiller, 67, was "one of the most positive and courageous men I've ever known."

[bigbadwolf]

Not so Quids. My mum is from Camberwell and my dad was dragged up all over the country but is originally from Taunton (please feel perfectly free to insert incest loaded jokes as I would do exactly the same if I were you). They only lived in the hell hole of Forest gate so my dad could commute to the city as after he'd recovered from the Falklands he did something truly disgusting. He became a corporate accountant. After I was born we shortly hopped back over the river like any sane human being and my mum started talking to her family again.

[matthew123]

Generally speaking I think religion, animal welfare, anit-abortionism, anti-capitalism etc is often just a vehicle for the savage mind to justify their anger and violence - if it wasn't for them hijacking these causes I think many of these extremists would still commit themselves to some other act that got them locked up behind bars.

It's not purely the Bible's fault or any other sect that people are the way they are - there has been man made atrocities since the dawn of time. It's called bad genes.

All these extremists do is undermine the cause of the legitimate practioners.

[mockney piers]

Bad genes or original sin? ;-p

[Bizzy]

Mockney Piers,

I'm not well versed in the historical facts and trends mentioned but I accept that they are probably accurate.

I believe a true Christian lives by Christian morals, teachings and values - putting God before anything they do. Taking one of your examples of a revolutionary preacher - when he / she decide to preach hate or prejudice messages, they are not putting God first; they are simply putting themselves first. There's a total disregard / misinterpretation which is frightening.

The second commandment states one should love thy neighbour as you love yourself. As you may know, this doesn't mean love all that only go to your Church and hate everyone else. It means, love everyone regardless.

Historians can carry on trying to fathom what constitutes a true Christian - but they will continue to go round in circles until they realise that a group or person proclaiming to be a Christian, who deliberately ignores Christian teachings should be disregarded as being a Christian.

[mockney piers]

I was being slightly facaetious bizzy, I knew exactly what youvqerw getting at, I was just trying to point out that there are several thousand strands of what constitues true Christianity out there, many of them well established, many with millions of followers so I'm going take with a pinch of salt anyone who can say what is or isn't true chrustian teaching.

But I agree with your sentiment and understand where you were coming from.

Ps sorry about iphone typos

I would disagree that it's up to historians to define it. Not their poblem, their lot is to study the impacts and consequences ofbthe various factions and personalities who do proclaim the truth. Some have huge impacts not in the least a couple of chaps called Jesus and mohammed!!

[louisiana]

Or indeed the allegedly anti-semitic friend-of-Hitler Pope Pius XII. Could he/his views have changed the course of European history? Maybe.

[Keef]

Again, thirs the problem. Small churches, out on their own, declaring that their brand of truth is definitive. Whether or not they are acting in a Christian manner in the eyes of most peace loving people, their beliefs justify to them, what they're doing.

[Bizzy]

Sorry, I meant historians who research this kind of thing should like you take supposed facts with a pinch of salt. I wouldn't get a historian to define Christianity...they know the theory, but that?s just about it...;-)