Fish

[steveo]

Moxons and Sopers are great fish shops and we're lucky to have them. They maintain they sell only sustainable cod and I think they think they are right. But this film The End of the Line says that nearly all the fish stocks in the European arena are on the point of collapse, whereas the Americans are in far better shape. The reason? All the countries of Europe have a different agenda and can't sort out a proper policy.

Whilst they bugger about, show some outrage to your MEP and the fisheries minister [email protected]

And please vote with your feet. Ask the chip shops to stop selling cod and haddock and request pollock, hake or rock salmon (all delicious).

C'mon

PS and no blue fin tuna, not ever, not any, none

Edited because rant wasn't finished

[Ted Max]

Sets watch

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Oh cynical Ted! You might find this article interesting:

California fishing industry

[Domitianus]

Why does nowhere seem to offer trout on the menu any more? I LOVE trout but it is so hard to come by.

[steveo]

Fish or no fish Ted, that is the question

[blah]

Judaeo-Christian organised religion is to blame for this looming crisis

[steveo]

Blah, WTF? What do you care about?

[blah]

Oddly enough, the fish situation is one of my areas of interest innit.soemthing I genuinely care about.

that and political agitation

[steveo]

Then show solidarity and let's rouse this sleepy parish

[charliecharlie]

I had a very good booklet (by Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall I think) about sustainability and eating fish!

It had a chart at the back that explained which fish were best to eat when (sizes, breeding periods, etc taken into consideration) and which were the least damaging to eat. I seem to have lost it (or put it somewhere safe)...

Think there also might be a list at the back of his The River Cottage Fish Book, but not sure.

It would be brilliant if they would publish the information in the fishmongers (but I guess that might damage their trade...)

does anyone have the information and if so please post it on this thread!

thanks xxcc

[steveo]

Scoff list: Scottish pot caught Langoustine/Scampi, Black Bream, Grey Mullet, line caught Mackerel, Seabass, Pollack, Gurnard. Also Sprats and Mussels

Say no to Tuna, Atlantic Cod, Haddock, Halibut, Hoki, Marlin, Plaice, Red Fish, Skate, Sole ? just for a while. Give ?em a break... or we're dead in the water

[david_carnell]

The following is a list of fish available to the UK and European consumer which have been given a rating of 1 or 2 and which MCS believes are fished within sustainable levels using methods which do not cause unacceptable damage to the environment or non-target species. The list is in alphabetical order not in order of sustainability.

1. Abalone (farmed only)

2. Alaska or walleye pollock (MSC certified)

3. Bib or pouting

4. Black bream or porgy or seabream (from Cornwall and NW and N Wales)

5. Brown crab (pot caught off S Devon coast)

6. Cape hake (MSC certified from S Africa)

7. Clam, American hardshell (from hand-gathered farmed sources only)

8. Clam, carpet shell (hand-gathered only)

9. Cockle (MSC certified from Bury Inlet, SW Wales)

10. Cod, Atlantic (Organically farmed)

11. Cod, Pacific (MSC certified)

12. Coley or saithe (from NE Arctic and combined N Sea stock)

13. Dab

14. Dover sole (MSC certified from Eastern Channel)

15. Flounder (from Cornwall and NW and N Wales)

16. Gurnard (grey and red)

17. Halibut, Pacific (MSC certified)

18. Herring or sild (MSC certified from Thames Blackwater, North Sea and Eastern English Channel)

19. Lemon sole (otter trawl or seine net caught)

20. Lobster, Mexican Baja California red rock (MSC certified)

21. Lobster, Western Australian rock (MSC certified)

22. Lythe or pollack (line caught and tagged from Cornwall)

23. Mackerel (MSC certified from Cornwall)

24. Mahi Mahi (handline caught from targeted fisheries only)

25. Mussel (sustainably harvested or farmed e.g. rope grown)

26. Oyster (native & Pacific, sustainably farmed)

27. Pilchard or sardine, European (traditionally harvested from Cornwall)

28. Red mullet (not from Mediterranean)

29. Salmon, Atlantic (Organically farmed)

30. Salmon, Pacific (MSC certified from Alaska)

31. Scallop (sustainably harvested e.g. dive-caught)

32. Scampi or Dublin Bay prawn (MSC certified from Loch Torridon, NW Scotland (not available in UK)

33. Scampi or Dublin Bay prawn (pot-caught from West of Scotland)

34. Seabass (line-caught and tagged from Cornwall)

35. Snapper, Red or Crimson

36. Spider crab (pot caught only)

37. Tilapia (sustainably farmed)

38. Trout (brown or sea and rainbow, Organically farmed)

39. Tuna, albacore (pole and line, handline or troll-caught from S Pacific or S Atlantic)

40. Tuna, skipjack (pole and line or handline-caught from Pacific (western & central) or Maldives)

41. Tuna, yellowfin (pole and line, handline or troll-caught from Pacific (western & central) or Atlantic)

42. Whiting (from English Channel)

43. Winkle (sustainably harvested e g. hand picked)

[charliecharlie]

Thank you David... and are there seasonal issues related to each of the above (linked to breeding times etc)??

and is there an 'avoid at all costs' list??

ps Have never heard of Mahi Mahi, Lythe, Bib or Pouting... will keep my eyes open for them...

[david_carnell]

You're welcome Charlie. I'm afraid my knowledge of all things piscine doesn't extend to breeding seasons and the like. However the Marine Conservation Society (MCS) publishes all the info needed here.

Below I've listed the fish that should not be eaten at all and are most endangered.

The following is a list of fish available to the UK and European consumer which have been given a rating of 5 and which MCS believes are most vulnerable to over-fishing and/or are fished using methods which cause damage to the environment or non-target species. The list is in alphabetical order not order of threat or impact.

1. Alfonsinos or golden eye perch

2. Anchovy (from Bay of Biscay)

3. Anglerfish or monkfish or goosefish (from North and Northwest Spain and Portuguese coast)

4. Argentine or greater silver smelt

5. Black Scabbardfish (from all areas except the Portuguese coast)

6. Blue ling

7. Brill (from all areas except Baltic Sea)

8. Chilean seabass or Patagonian toothfish (from all areas except the South Georgia fishery)

9. Cod, Atlantic (Wild caught from all areas except Northeast Arctic, Iceland, and Western Channel, Bristol Channel, Southeast Ireland and Sole)

10. Dogfish or spurdog or rock salmon or flake

11. Dublin Bay Prawn or langoustine or scampi (from Spain and Portugal)

12. Eel, conger

13. Eel, European

14. Escolar or snake mackerel

15. Greater forkbeard

16. Grouper

17. Haddock (from the Faroes and West of Scotland fisheries)

18. Hake, European (Southern stock)

19. Halibut, Atlantic (Wild Caught)

20. Halibut, Greenland (from Northwest Atlantic and Greenland, Iceland, West of Scotland and Azores)

21. Herring or sild (from West of Scotland, West Ireland, and Great Sole fisheries)

22. Ling (except handline caught from the Faroes)

23. Lobster, American (from Southern New England stocks)

24. Marlin, black

25. Marlin, blue (from Atlantic longline and purse seine fisheries)

26. Marlin, Indo-Pacific blue

27. Marlin, white

28. Nursehound (from Bay of Biscay and Iberian stocks)

29. Orange roughy

30. Parrotfish

31. Picarel

32. Plaice (from the Western Channel, Celtic Sea, Southwest Ireland and West of Ireland stocks)

33. Plaice, American or long rough dab

34. Prawn, tiger (except organically farmed)

35. Ratfish or rabbitfish

36. Ray, blonde

37. Ray, sandy

38. Ray, shagreen

39. Ray, smalleyed (from Bay of Biscay and Iberian stocks)

40. Ray, thornback or roker (from Bay of Biscay and Iberian stocks)

41. Ray, undulate

42. Red or blackspot seabream

43. Redfish or ocean perch

44. Roundnose grenadier

45. Salmon, Atlantic (Wild Caught)

46. Seabass (Pelagic Trawl only)

47. Shark, leafscale gulper

48. Shark, mako

49. Shark, porbeagle

50. Shark, siki or Portuguese dogfish

51. Shark, tope

52. Skate, common

53. Skate, longnose

54. Skate, Norwegain or black

55. Skate, white

56. Snapper, cubera

57. Snapper, mutton

58. Snapper, northern red

59. Sole, Dover or common (from North Sea and Irish Sea)

60. Starry smoothhound (from Bay of Biscay and Iberian stocks)

61. Sturgeon, caviar (Wild Caught)

62. Swordfish (Longline and Gillnet fisheries in Indian Ocean, Mediterranean, and Central and Western Pacific)

63. Tuna, albacore (Longline and Trawl caught from the North and South Atlantic and the Mediterranean)

64. Tuna, bigeye

65. Tuna, northern bluefin

66. Tuna, Pacific bluefin

67. Tuna, southern bluefin

68. Turbot (Wild caught)

69. Tusk or torsk

[Marmora Man]

The Califorian solution is the best and allows the oceans to be farmed instead of hunted. It's rather like the rotation of crops concept - the conservancy areas can change and be moved but as long as the fishing industry respects them the fish stocks can grow to maturity, spawn new stock and allow the population to grow.

It has been trialed around Lundy Island - but doesn't seem to have any EU support which appears to be in hock to the fishing industry and is itself adding to the problem by allowing fishing for one kind of fish and insisting on all other species of fish to be thrown back into the sea - dead! So it allows them to be killed but not sold.

If fishing areas were restricted - but unlimited fishing for all species allowed in the unrestricted areas - fishermen could earn a living, we could eat fish and stocks would be protected.

In the 17th & 18th century cod on the Banks off Novia Scotia were as long as a man - nowadays you'd be hard pressed to find a cod even a quarter that size.

[brum]

This has made me feel guilty for buying haddock for my dinner tonight - I'll have to eat it now, but this will be the last one for a while!

[bigbadwolf]

You should listen to MM, he essentially was a fish once.

[charliecharlie]

wow DC, I better do a bit of swatting!!

quite a lot to take in

great to have the info

big thanks

xxcc

[Whynniard]

Someone told me that there is a brilliant fish shop across Peckham Rye thats been around for a very long time, does anyone have an address ?

[ontheedge]

think you're talkin bout scopers 0n n unhead lane

[david_carnell]

Sopers on Nunhead Lane for those not trying to type on an iPhone keyboard ;-)