former East Dulwich councillor - how can I help?

[Broadbean]

Hi James ,

If the gritters have not been in the Dulwich area can you not question why this is as the roads and pavements are terrible . The roads around schools used to gritted in this area even if others didn't , but that isn't even happening.

[Penguin68]

I can confirm that part at least of the Underhill pavement (West Side, along the cemetery - opposite pavement and going South) was gritted yesterday. But actually the part not in your ward. Don't know how, didn't see it being done, just the result. Gritting just one pavement is fine, walkers can cross to the gritted side.

[mynamehere]

We swept and gritted the pavement in front of our house. 5 minutes but I might be exaggerating how long it took to get your sympathy

[rch]

The snow was so powdery yesterday that I managed to completely clear the footpath in front of my house with a broom within minutes. It's a bit more compacted today, so I've left it so that sections don't freeze over and create trip hazards.

In the past, Lordship Lane pavements have been low down the pecking order for gritting, but I've always had to walk down Lordship with my trowel afterwards to clear the salt out of the tree pits so that the grit doesn't kill off our trees.

[Siduhe]

I still had a bag of salt from 2 years ago when Southwark gave them out to residents for free so I salted my path and the pavement outside. Did they offer the same this year? If so, I missed it, but it was a really good initiative.

[rch]

Update... Lordship has been gritted, but was too cold to check the tree pits.

Saw lots of gritting lorries while I was out, so it looks like the south of the borough is definitely on the radar now. Main roads are clear and it doesn't look like it's going to snow heavily tonight.

[Penguin68]

I suspect a car sliding down Dog Kennel Hill on The BBC London News programme may have reminded Southwark that we exist, and as a potentially damaging story unless they got their act together. Power of the press eh? What's not to like?

[Chick]

Dear James,

Why don?t the council grit the back roads? The Gardens and the area around them are treacherous.

[Penguin68]

The key issue must be to grit roads which take public transport or are major routes - minor and side roads are simply too expensive to grit. Providing dumps of sand to allow self-gritting of pavements would be called for if these conditions weren't now as rare as hen's teeth.

I am annoyed about the failures to effectively grit major routes at the start of this (now mainly remedied) - but side roads are a different issue, unless perhaps they serve key locations (schools, hospitals, clinics etc.). - and then only if we are into a 1962 situation. Which we aren't. Hopefully we will be clear of snow by the end of the weekend.

Now is the time (see what I am doing here?) for some True Grit in coping with this.

[Siduhe]

Southwark do an annual giveaway of bags of salt so that residents can grit their own paths/drives/access - it's a great service and designed exactly for these sort of occasional but extreme bouts of weather. However, they do a very poor job of promoting the days when the salt is available. I only know about it because our local councillors are good enough to post on here from time to time.

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/street-care/gritting

[Nigello]

A kilo of salt costs about 40p or so from Asda or Tesco, so why not DIY? I don't absolved the council of all its duties but, come on, we're not helpless. Sweep your path, ask your neighbour whether they'd like theirs done too, throw salt or ash down and at least some of the problem is fixed.

[Pugwash]

We put sand on pavement outside our house - we cannot expect the council to do everything!. Council tax is going up this year due to continual cuts in Government grants. Social Services and Housing should take priority over gritting side streets etc.

Daughter from Bromley arrived today - only access for majority of her neighbours is down a steep hill - no pavements or roads gritted in that area. Residents have no nearby shops - and it is a good 15 minutes walk in normal conditions to get to nearest shop.

[BrandNewGuy]

Well, some might argue that a far greater part of council expenditure should be collected locally to make them more accountable to the local electorate, so increased council tax might be a good thing.

[James Barber]

You can see Southwark Councils Winter Plan here - https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwjv8ofq8srZAhXiL8AKHSL4DZYQFggrMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.southwark.gov.uk%2Fassets%2Fattach%2F1570%2FWinter%2520Service%2520Policy%2520and%2520Plan%25202017-18.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3XIiYnQMmdr75n7x_vTrPY

It talks about 40g/m2 of salt application but that only applies to heavy snow falls. Apparently we've only have light snow falls warning 12g/m2. Doesn't feel light.

It talks about deploying 80 hand propelled mechanical snow gritting machines my lot bought. But I've not seen one on the streets in years. I have seen people with a wonky wheelbarrow and shovels!

Hi Pugwash,

Council Tax is going up this year because Southwark Labour refused to make the ?4m savings in back office costs my lot proposed. Proposals approved by council senior management as legally sound and deliverable.

Hi Siduhe,

The free salt service only works because relatively few people take it up.

Southwark doesn't have salt barn to preserve the efficacy of the salt by keeping it out of the rain.

Hi BranNewGuy,

Southwark Council is way too big to be really responsive. 1965 consolidation of several local councils to form Southwark Council wasn't a great idea. It gave the impression of savings by merging centralised functions but creates big departments with big department problems. Other smaller home counties councils run the same services with far fewer people per head of population.

[sand12]

I am truly appalled by the lack of civic or plain common sense this past week. People do not even sweep their own doorstep, path to door, or the footpath in front of their gardens. Even after several days of snow/ice forming. Agreed council can't do everything, whether you rent or own, fact is you live somewhere and should keep the area tidy/debris free for your own safety and others. Self-preservation from slips/injury as well as looking out for your fellow community members.

In many other countries if you don't salt/shovel area in front of your property you are fined heavily. City takes care of roads, but footpaths are responsibility of residents & businesses. The grit bins are found everywhere, hardly seen anyone using them. I'm at the top of LL, but walking around most side streets, most footpaths are still covered in snow and this morning a sheet of ice.

Pre-salting/gritting does help. I did it myself for our place back on Monday. Still clear today.

[Penguin68]

James

Driving back through Lewisham yesterday I saw several dumps of grit on pavements - clearly left to allow locals to use it to grit their paths/ outside their houses. I saw none (what a surprise) as soon as I entered Southwark's boundaries.

For an area without tubes, and whose train service (outwith the Overground) is derisory, we are more reliant on road based public transport than others; and we are hilly. Southwark's actions (or rather lack of action until shamed on national television) is shameful.

The apparat will of course continue to be handed power by the north of the borough, flat, tubed and cosy. Southwark is not (just) way too big. It is also still ony really interested in its 'old' self - Camberwell can (and does) go hang.

I can see no remedy.

[James Barber]

Hi P68,

If you mean the old borough of Camberwell that included Dulwich then yes.

[Penguin68]

Precisely

[Chick]

I am not talking about my path, but pavements that are treacherous. It isn?t unreasonable to expect the council to grit the roads which at least would make it safer.

Nigello Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> A kilo of salt costs about 40p or so from Asda or

> Tesco, so why not DIY? I don't absolved the

> council of all its duties but, come on, we're not

> helpless. Sweep your path, ask your neighbour

> whether they'd like theirs done too, throw salt or

> ash down and at least some of the problem is

> fixed.

[nxjen]

It?s not unreasonable but I guess it?s largely a question of logistics - manpower, transportation of grit and machinery. It would have been a huge undertaking to grit all pavements in Southwark (how many miles is that?) for what was a light snowfall at a time when milder weather was forecast to return in a few days and the problem resolve of its own accord.

ETA. The parts of my street which had not already been cleared of snow by residents / traders were swept and cleared yesterday morning. This effort proved a waste as six hours later it was covered again by fresh snow which by the middle of this morning had thawed.

[James Barber]

Hi nxgen,

It seems clear some roads and pavements should have had more treatment - Dog kennel Hill for example meant the school was shut for a day.

Sad to see street cleaning staff out with a wonky wheelbarrow and shovel and not more of the mechanical gritters that would mean they could cover significantly more ground.If you have the staff give them the proper tools to do the job properly. Council officers have been coy where the 80 pavement gritters are.

As you say this time we've been fortunate with the weather - it could have been much worse and if we don't cope well now...

[nxjen]

Had the snowfall been heavier than it?s likely that greater resources would have been deployed. How the Council responded to one inch of snow cannot be taken as an indication of their response to say a four to five inch snowfall. You?re just stirring again.

[Calsug]

The gritting of pavements round me was patchy at best, know the public statements mention X number of tones of grit spread but I wonder how much was spread properly... as mentioned on another post saw numerous examples of grit randomly slung along a path which ultimately made for the odd ?stepping stone? of grit - was totally pointless and a waste of resources

[James Barber]

Hi nxjen,

All street cleaning staff were deployed to snow clearing. Their are no other magic council resources - short of seeking civil assistance form the armed forces which some public bodies needed to d last week in hard hit areas.

hi Calsug,

The amounts of salt/grit spread were lower than the Winter Plan forecasts - but it is designed for a heavier snow fall.

The problem appears to have been salt was spread for the levels of snow forecast at 12 and 20 gramme per square metre on main roads and bus routes. But for full action this requires people and vehicles churning it up. The snow was expected in the middle of the night when no one is around. The common sense approach would APPEAR to spread more.

I'm checking if that assumption and logic works with officers. Because if relatively light snow falls can close so many schools and roads then heaven help us when we one day do get a large amount of snow.

[Penguin68]

I think the issue is less the depth of snow but that any snow, once it has been compacted and frozen, without treatment on the hills around us makes the roads too slippy for normal vehicles. Bus routes and major (A) roads must be kept open. There is no evidence of gritting (snow was all white) on the first day around ED - hence the Dog Kennel Hill debacle. There was very clear warning that this snowfall would be accompanied by very low temperatures, when ice formation was thus almost guaranteed at any snow depth.

I have no problem with the council, in straightened times, concentrating on key routes. I don't believe, at least in the south of the Borough, they did that soon enough. And other boroughs (i.e. Lewisham) clearly went further than Southwark did.