Motorcycles allowed in Bus Lanes - an early report

[PeckhamRose]

TfL apparently suppressed a report that suggested motorbikes being allowed in bus lanes would NOT mean cyclists would get killed all day and every day. Livingstone - afraid of the cycling lobby backlash - chose not to report it. Boris (I did not vote for him) saw the report and said Motorbikes should go in TFL bus lanes.

We - the biking lobby (Motorcycle Action Group and British Motorcycle Federation (and if you're bikers please become members)) - argued all bus lanes should let us in, in all of London as they do in Birmingham and Bristol and various councils around London (some Westminster roads and Richmond allow us in). But Southwark aren't hearing any of it.

The TfL report was given to pedestrian and cycle groups and not biker groups! In actual fact a few more motorcyclists were injured, but it's a small rise and a short period of time. I suspect sometimes it happens when motorcyclists are riding up the bus lane and don't slow down when a left turn is approaching, knowing it is likely a car will turn left into it across the bus lane path without looking first.

The report is too early too soon to make any real conclusions, but is contained within the link if you're really bored at work today! Motorcycle News Report

Here is a link to my posting in Jan 09 with some useful links within it.

Motorcycle Action Group

The London Bikers

[Sandperson]

Not wanting to start another row about this and the majority of motorcyclists are good at lights and junctions to us cyclists, but most of the people on scooters are dangerous and until there's a way of either training them better or separating them off from motorcyclists I think the blanket use of bus lanes for motorcyclists is a bad idea. Sorry PR. I thought you were very brave at Pull the Other One if that's any consolation.....it was you wasn't it?

[PeckhamRose]

"Most of the people on scooters?" Statistics dear person.

And no idea what else you're on about.

[Sandperson]

Erm, the only stats I have are the fact that I get cut off every day, at least once, on my commute to and from work by dopes on scooters. Excuse me for not attaching an excel spreadsheet.

[DirtyBox]

Maybe it's because scooter riders are only required to have one day's training, most of which is spent in a car park riding around cones. I saw one yesterday attempting to undertake a stationary bus at a bus stop....

[PeckhamRose]

So do I!

Idiots!

But then I also have to be wary of car drivers taking their eye off the road as they look at the sat nav screens, or talking on mobiles, or putting on make up, changing the music etc. Anyway, bikes in bus lanes. Sensible idea. We must never forget to take responsibility for ourselves though and train to be the safest and best road users that we can be. Certainly the accidents I had when I was first a motorcyclist even after passing my test, I would not have now, as experience teaches you to 'see' what that other road user is likely to do. Testosterone of course can't be legislated against!

Sandperson Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Erm, the only stats I have are the fact that I get

> cut off every day, at least once, on my commute to

> and from work by dopes on scooters. Excuse me for

> not attaching an excel spreadsheet.

[Sandperson]

Absolutely!

I am a better driver because I am a bike rider. I have better road awareness and I am sure this is true for you as a motorcyclist. I even stop at red lights, wave traffic out in front of me and stop at pedestrian crossings!

I think the level of training for motorcyclists is good, for scooterists it is not adequate. Just an opinion formed from sharing the road with them every day in all weathers and at all times.

[hislordship]

As a former scooterist and now proper motorcyclist, I'd agree the training for scooters is dismal. You can get on geared 125cc, capable of 70 odd MPH after one days training that even a monkey could get through. A couple of hours is just classroom work, a couple more in a car park, and then a couple on the road.

The new motorbike test is actually pretty good - the final test is about 45 mins. on the road, and you are not allowed to make a single serious fault. A serious fault is anything that causes another vehicle to have to make any sort of evasive action, even such as changing speed.

You generally have to do 5 days training or almost 40 hours. You can get a private pilot license with 40 hours!

[DirtyBox]

You can get on geared 125cc, capable of 70 odd MPH after one days training that even a monkey could get through

I am that monkey! I had to re do my CBT before I could do the rest of the course, luckily I had 2 weeks between the CBT and the DA part.

[jimmy two times]

I reckon cyclists should also have to take proficiency tests before there allowed on roads.

[titch juicy]

as a pedestrian, cyclist, car driver and former mopedderist i can happily say that most pedestrians, cyclists, car drivers and mopedderists are all useless and selfish.

[PeckhamRose]

Yes! And I don't think buses should be allowed in bus lanes - but hey - we all live in the same world together!

[SteveT]

When bus lanes were first introduced, bicycles and motorbikes were allowed to use them, and I did not realise this right had been revoked.

When did this happen and why?

[hislordship]

DirtyBox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You can get on geared 125cc, capable of 70 odd MPH

> after one days training that even a monkey could

> get through

>

> I am that monkey! I had to re do my CBT before I

> could do the rest of the course, luckily I had 2

> weeks between the CBT and the DA part.

lol - you looser :-) I didn't realize that you could fail it!

[taper]

Most motorcyclists seem to use bus lanes anyway. I don't support allowing the full use of bus lanes, but wonder whether a compromise might be that motrcylists could use the out half of buslanes? That would segregate them a little from cyclists

[jimmy two times]

I would be careful when using bus lanes. Not all of them are ok for bikes. My son got a fine for going in one a couple of months ago. Make sure you check the sign.

[Horsebox]

Don't have a problem with considerate motorcyclists using bus lanes - would happily trade off full access for motorcyclists to STOP using the Advance Stop Line / zone at lights (that's the green area designed specifically for pedal cycles). The look of bemusement when I point out that they shouldn't be in the area makes me wonder if many of them should be in charge of a moving vehicle at all. [/rant]

[LegalEagle-ish]

It's not just motorbikes; cars, buses and vans all sit in the box which then means that cyclists have to go into the crossing where the pedestrians cross. It's dangerous to a cyclist to stay back in the traffic when the lights change, so motor vehicles sitting in the cycle box, encourage light hopping by cyclists.

I hate it when cars park in cycle lanes too. Everyone wants cyclists to be punished for cycling on the pavements and light hopping, but when are the police going to enforce the cyclists rights and make it safe enough for us not to jumpup on pavements or go through the lights before they have changed?

[DirtyBox]

DirtyBox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You can get on geared 125cc, capable of 70 odd MPH

> after one days training that even a monkey could

> get through

>

> I am that monkey! I had to re do my CBT before I

> could do the rest of the course, luckily I had 2

> weeks between the CBT and the DA part.

lol - you looser :-) I didn't realize that you could fail it!

I had to try hard! Apparently you have to stay in the left lane when turning left and not head towards the oncoming traffic....

Worryingly I was by no means the worst on the course.

[PeckhamRose]

In Newham motorcycles are allowed and encouraged with the paintwork and signage to ride to the front bit at the lights with the cyclists. So there's no London-wide rules. You have to check the signs each time you cross a borough's borders. It's ridiculous.

[Asset]

I don't think motorcyclists should be allowed to use bus lanes.

[PeckhamRose]

Thanks for that, but why not when evidence shows we're safer there?

[Asset]

You say 'thanks for that' in a slightly sarcy tone as my view doesn't agree with yours. I could be wrong.

The evidence apparently shows motorcylsits are safer in bus lane - can you point us to this evidence?, the links are all about the perceived risk to cyclists. How is the information collated and compared really with regard to increased safety? I doubt that in the long run it makes that much difference. Motorcyclists are most at risk from cars turning into traffic from side roads as you point out, being in a bus lane aint gonna help there IMO and the evidence seems to point to this being the case.

Motorcyclists travel at the same speed (supposedly 30mph) as the rest of the traffic - why do they need the bus lanes? The argument is that they shouldn't be in a queue of traffic if it is slow moving - well hell, why should the cars?

Frequently as a pedal cyclist I have been shaken by motorbikes passing me very close at speed after moving out of slow traffic and into the bus lane.

Don't think I am biased against motorbikes particularly as Mr Asset and I used to have one and we travelled many miles on it.

[PeckhamRose]

I wasn't being sarcastic - but I like to read the reasons behind people's (otherwise useless) simple stated points of view, "I think this"; "I think something different", etc. Your point of view now explained is useful to read so thanks.