No. 42 bus route extension consultation

[landsberger]

The only caveat I have is where would the bus have "layover time"? Presently the bus terminates and "lays over" (i.e. gives the driver 5 mins or so rest and allows him/her to tidy up the bus etc) at Sunray Avenue. The new projection of the service advances it to Sainsbury's (which will presumably allow them to go for a wee as well). If the loop is completed the driver will not be able to leave the vehicle; even if he/she allows passengers to join, how happy would they be sitting at Sainsbury's for his/her break?

[Duvaller]

landsberger Wrote:

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> The only caveat I have is where would the bus have

> "layover time"? Presently the bus terminates and

> "lays over" (i.e. gives the driver 5 mins or so

> rest and allows him/her to tidy up the bus etc) at

> Sunray Avenue. The new projection of the service

> advances it to Sainsbury's (which will presumably

> allow them to go for a wee as well). If the loop

> is completed the driver will not be able to leave

> the vehicle; even if he/she allows passengers to

> join, how happy would they be sitting at

> Sainsbury's for his/her break?

I would guess a whole lot happier than sitting on Sunray Ave!

[ed_pete]

I can't see any reason for it to loop. It would need to operate in both directions or how would someone travelling from Red Post Hill to Sainsburys do the reverse journey ? Operating in both directions would require a separate route number eg 42a. Can't see TfL buying to this.

[Duvaller]

ed_pete Wrote:

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> I can't see any reason for it to loop. It would

> need to operate in both directions or how would

> someone travelling from Red Post Hill to

> Sainsburys do the reverse journey ? Operating in

> both directions would require a separate route

> number eg 42a. Can't see TfL buying to this.

Can't see any benefit for a "loop". It just doesn't make sense. Terminating at Sainbo's makes sense as there is space there for about 4 buses. The P13 quite often parks up there when it is ahead of schedue. Drivers love it as they can go into Sainsbos and buy a snack, get a coffee etc etc

Sooner the better for this proposal!

[Rachel_Photography]

As someone who lives on Casino Avenue, having the 42 continue onto Sainsbos would be extremely useful. I usually walk to the shop, but if I'm carrying lots of heavy shopping home it would be nice to only have to get one bus home instead of two. Quicker and so much cheaper when you're not on a travelcard.

[Magogley]

As someone who lives on Red Post Hill (as well as a regular 42 user) I'm really dismayed at the proposal to run double deckers up and down the hill *both ways* - not even sharing the pain (!) with Sunray Avenue. The traffic islands in Red Post Hill are there because residents campaigned for them as a replacement for speed humps which were really disruptive and not much good at reducing speeds. If they're reduced in width it'll be easier for lots of other heavier vehicles to use Red Post Hill too. It's a narrow street at the Sunray estate end and it already takes more traffic than some nearby A-roads, so I don't understand the routing decision - let alone both ways. TfL don't explain it either. Plus no-one would choose to have double-deckers running by their home if they could help it (which we might not be able to), so spare us a thought on a narrow street which already has the P4 and the single-decker 42 one way. Lots of disquiet along our part of Red Post Hill. Sigh.

[minder]

Maybe you could get together to contact TFL with your concerns? Get a petition going, doesn't have to be on-line.

Looks like the CPZ will be coming into effect soon and might have an impact on things in Red Post Hill anyway, including the width of the islands so I would act soon.

[landsberger]

There was another thread on this forum that was broadly supportive of the move. I'm personally not quite sure why having a double decker bus passing your house is any worse than a single decker in terms of noise or disturbance, but there you go.

[bargee99]

It does seem logical to have the buses coming down Sunray Avenue and straight on at the roundabout on the way to ED and then going up Red Post Hill on the return trip turning left at the mini roundabout. It would make the buses negotiating the roundabout much easier and also avoid the buses passing each other on either road. I suspect part of the problem may be in cutting back and managing the trees on Sunray Avenue to enable double decker buses to travel on it. From memory they overhang the road and there may also be an objection to how much they would have to be cut back.

[Bic Basher]

If they can't get approval for using Red Post Hill, I wonder if they'll consider re-routing the 42 via Herne Hill, then via Route 37 along Half Moon Lane instead?

[Amaryllis]

As another resident of Red Post Hill, I would much prefer we have less of the large traffic. The road was not built and has not been maintained in any way to support this level of heavy traffic.

In the last decade I have seen the traffic situation on Red Post Hill get steadily worse until now we have gridlock twice a day whilst buses and lorries try and negotiate their way up the road. Often leading to shouting matches and road rage. It is madness to route more regular traffic on this road especially large buses.

I feel like the route extension is great news and have no issues with it, however I do take exception to the new routing via Red Post Hill.

[handh]

Sending double decker buses down red post hill is a very bad idea - it will mean taking out all of the traffic calming which was put in to protect the hundreds of school kids who use the road every day, following some very nasty traffic accidents. And it will do nothing for local residents on the route because the 42 already goes almost to the Charter school fron one end, and the 37 to East Dulwich from the other.

And for those who think it will be a good commute option into the City, think again. I work near liverpool street but would never take the 42 all the way, it takes hours, bonkers route.

And TFL really need to leaflet the proposed new route, and do a proper safety, demand and route analysis, this one makes no sense.

[Magogley]

In reply to @landsberger (sorry, not sure how to post under that post) - heavier vehicles (up to 15 tonnes when laden I think) + bigger engines - in the case of RPH doing hill starts at the traffic lights = more ground rumble/vibration and noise. Plus higher vehicles = new upstairs blinds or curtains. Not sure about emissions - depends what bus they propose to use I suspect. For Red Post Hill in particular, there are also additional concerns about safety, congestion, road surface, etc - though not all routes would raise the same issues.

I use the 42 a fair amount (though like @handh I find it's quicker and more reliable to use alternative routes - such as the overground N Dulwich-London Bridge plus a bus - if I'm travelling to Liverpool Street). I welcome the route extension.

[minder]

Magogley, I also think the 42 extension to Sainsburys is a great idea. Getting to East Dulwich Hospital and Sainsburys is a struggle for some people living on Denmark Hill and the Sunray Estate. Handh is right that it goes to The Charter but also the 37 bus goes nowhere near to Sainsburys if you live on the Sunray estate which comprises Red Post Hill, Sunray and Casino Avenue. You would have to get off the 37 bus at Goose Green roundabout and walk up the hill to Sainsburys (a big walk for some people) so the 42 going straight into Sainsburys would be great.

Going the other way towards the City the 42 does take a lot longer i.e. visiting the Tower of London or the Tower Bridge Care Home but it's always been a reliable route for me when planning journeys but I'm old school.

My daughter had to be at The Museum of London this morning for 10am. The 42 bus is on our doorstep but after talking to me she chose to get a train from Denmark Hill to Lewisham on to the DLR which stops somewhere over near the Museum. I was worried but she got there a lot quicker than the 42 bus route.

[Bic Basher]

minder Wrote:

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> Magogley, I also think the 42 extension to

> Sainsburys is a great idea. Getting to East

> Dulwich Hospital and Sainsburys is a struggle for

> some people living on Denmark Hill and the Sunray

> Estate. Handh is right that it goes to The

> Charter but also the 37 bus goes nowhere near to

> Sainsburys if you live on the Sunray estate which

> comprises Red Post Hill, Sunray and Casino Avenue.

> You would have to get off the 37 bus at Goose

> Green roundabout and walk up the hill to

> Sainsburys (a big walk for some people) so the 42

> going straight into Sainsburys would be great.

Derwent Grove bus stop on East Dulwich Grove is a lot closer to Sainsbury's and ED station with a short walk down Melbourne Grove.

Not practical for those with special needs, but it's the closest to them currently.

[ed_pete]

I'd be interested to know if TfL have assessed the impact of more double-deckers on the bridge outside of North Dulwich station. Wasn't is closed for ages some years back because it needed strengthening ? Probably not an issue but just wondering..

[handh]

Minder and others who have supported this proposal. When my mother-in-law's stayng with us she takes the 37 the other way door-to-door to tesco and lidl in brixton, or the mid-size sainsburys on brixton hill. And the existing 42 route already goes straight to Morrissons in camberwell. So there's plenty of bus access to local supermarkets, for those who aren't able to walk across the Greendale footpath from Dylways.

So the question is not "would it be nice if the 42 went to sainsburys?" but "should we dig up all the traffic calming on red post hill so TFL can run double decker buses down a narrow residential road which hundreds of schoolkids walk to school down each day, just to give a wider choice of supermarkets than there is already?"

I want to see more traffic calming and less heavy traffic on red post hill, which is the main walk and cycle to school route for hundreds of kids (including mine) going to local schools. Their safety has to come first.

So please join me in asking TFL and southwark council to withdraw the current proposal. If there's a real need, let's hear it, and there has to be a better way to deliver it.

[sanity girl]

I don't see why TFL can't extend the route as proposed, but keep using single deckers rather than double deckers.

[spider69]

Agreed just use single deckers makes a lot of sense

[Bic Basher]

sanity girl Wrote:

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> I don't see why TFL can't extend the route as

> proposed, but keep using single deckers rather

> than double deckers.

Demand for the 42 north of Camberwell Green is very high, it's a route that should have been given extra capacity years ago. It'll almost certainly get busier south of Kings as it becomes a local direct route to Sainsbury's.

If the Red Post Hill option isn't viable, then the only solution is to either divert the route via Herne Hill or scrap the route south of Camberwell Green as I can't see TfL not going for the single decker option.

[minder]

It looks like the 42 being a double decker is going ahead anyway!

People living on the Sunray estate had a letter from Conway/Southwark through the letterbox on Thursday morning stating 'highway improvement works' would begin this Monday through to Friday which is short notice for people living on Red Post.

It's going to be re-surfaced from the top end of Denmark Hill right down to the roundabout near St Faith's with a lot going on in-between that area including a tree being chopped down, which they didn't put on the letter but as I was walking down Red Post today spotted a notice on the tree which has been there for years. It is an old tree but a double decker would hit it so Southwark are taking it out.

[minder]

And Red Post Hill will be closed to traffic.

[minder]

Or partly closed, as resurfacing is on Thursday and Friday with central pedestrian island reconstruction taking place between 14th and 18th.

[Ruffler]

Thanks for that Minder. Do you know the diverted route the 42 will take while the roadworks are taking place?

[rupert james]

Any route that they can use to bring in more changes without consulting.