Gina Ford fans?

[emc]

Hello

Am sure some of you might have seen the comments on Ms Ford from Nick Clegg mp and I just wondered if anyone out there would be prepared to defend her for a short TV piece? If you'd like more info pls PM me.

thanks

Emc

[emc]

Also now looking for anti-Gina Forders.....

[R&A]

can you tell us when this will be on so we can watch the debate?

[jojobaby]

hi i am a REAL anti gina fan - i cannot tell you how much it annoys me that women are not prepared to put their life on hold for a few years of their life for the sake of a 7pm clock off. It is such a shame that they cant just kick back and enjoy life even if the baby if awake at 9pm (god forbid). Most the time it is the mum doing it so that they can have time with their husbands in the evening - i am the only women to admit that their husband is a complete pain in the arse for the first year of the baby and that really the thought of having to spend more time arguing with him or having to give him attention is the last thing we women need ( don't get me wrong my husband is my best friend and my soul mate, but when a baby is born it is simply not his time). I now have three kids - 7, 8 and 2 and half . the youngest still has never slept a night yet and the others did when they got to about three - but i have so many amazing memories of my kids with me snuggled in the bed and now they are so independent and have their head in the DS or Wii - it does not last for long so please enjoy it.......please please forget the 12 hours sleep by 12 weeks - enjoy the babies and their company and try not to control the regimented structure of the day - chill and enjoy your beautiful baby and throw gina in the bin!!!

[R&A]

Why does GF cause so much anger? I'm new (3 week baby) to all of this so haven't yet found what works for us. However i'm totally open to being hand held in terms of sleep times etc.

People talk about 'instinct' but i have zero instinct as to what babies need. e.g. I had no idea how long babies are meant to sleep for, how much they eat and when they eat etc.

Isn't it each to their own and like with all manuals you pick and choose what works for you?

I am dipping in and out of gf's book for help and advice but certainly not following her by the letter and i'd never be appalled if the baby was awake at 9pm when he shouldn't be etc.

Also what attracts me by the routine is that i know when there'll be relative peace and when i can shower/eat etc

That makes me feel less stressed out and out of control. But I think that's just my personality and other people get stressed out by even the mention of the word 'routine'...

So like the atkins diet - you dont' follow it by the letter but take out the principles that make sense to you and see what happens

Or maybe i'll hate her too in a few weeks... but seeing as the daily mail hate her i'm going to give her a shot

[jrthomas_uk]

Actually I love GF, her routine really helped with my son as I had no idea what to do with him and no idea when and how much sleep he needed. As soon as we started with the GF routine life got A LOT BETTER and my son started sleeping and napping and was generally a lot happier.

I'm always amazed that she gets so much stick when the routine obviously works. My son wasn't sleeping through by 12 weeksn and I didn't expect him to but all our lives were greatly enhanced by following this routine.

In fact, if anyone has the GF book for toddlers then I'd like to buy. PLease PM if you do.

Cheers, (tu)

[jrthomas_uk]

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[R&A]

hilarious!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2006/aug/09/mumsnet

now i'm beginning to see why she's so controversial

[BellendenBear]

R&A, I totally agree. Different things will suit different parents and different babies. I dipped in and out of Gina and found a lot of her advice really helpful. I don't know anyone who has read her routines and followed them religiously, but most people use them as a guide as to how much sleep an how often etc. I also found her weaning book really helpful.

And yes, may baby does sleep 7-7 and I love it!

[chantelle]

My son fed way too frequently for the schedule to ever make any semblance of working for us, but I think she is totally reasonable in her methods and attitude, and accepts that people will use what works and discard what doesn't. I think Nick Clegg made his comments in a friendly, parent banter sort of way and then it stupidly was run as a story of national importance.

Ask any parent about GF and you will probably get a bit of eye-rolling - even from her biggest

fans.

She has also written a touching book called, Good Mother, Bad Mother, about her own childhood and all the baggage mums are endowed with.

[Pickle]

I freely admit to owning (and using) a couple of Gina Ford books - I like to think what I did was Gina Ford "lite"... exactly as has already been mentioned where I dipped in and out of the books taking from them what was relevant to me and my family situation. I followed it more for my 1st child, 2nd child just sort of slotted in to the rough daily structure we already had in place.

By using it I don't feel like I'm a parent who's "not prepared to put their life on hold for a few years of their life for the sake of a 7pm clock off", instead I'm a parent who fills every day with activities for my children, knowing that they'll be awake and alert for the activities, gets time to unwind in the evenings with my husband, and wakes refreshed (in theory) to face the next day.

Each to their own, but I really dislike the line of thinking (from people who are anti-Gina) that to have followed a GF-type routine I have somehow neglected my children.

[KatsuQueen]

I am a really big fan of Gina Ford and I would recommend her to any of my friends who was expecting a baby. It was a trusted friend who swore by her Gina Ford book, I had never heard of her before I got pregnant.

Jojobaby, when I first read your post I thought you were being sarcastic and it actually made me grin, before I realised you were being serious. Sorry, if this comes across wrong and certainly don't mean to offend/pre-judge - (it's so hard on message boards) but one of the reasons I bought the book in the first place was because of comments from mothers like "2 and a half years and still not sleeping through the night". I just needed some help and guidance, and GF provided that.

I would say that every baby is different, but MiniKatsu did fall into the routine quite easily and is a champion napper during the day and sleeps 7 - 7 and has done since he was about 5 months old. (Not bragging, I've got all my finger and toes crossed now) He's always been a very happy baby, so I really don't get why GF is so derided on message boards etc.

It's almost as if people don't admit that they do GF routines because it's "bad parenting" .... hhahaha I must be the worst mother ever!

[randomv]

What annoys me about the anti-Gina brigade is that they can't make up their minds. Either we are selfish and "refuse to put their lives on hold" for a few years or we're slaves to the routine and can't go out and meet friends for lunch when we are at our lonliest because it interferes with the lunchtime nap. As a Gina mum I don't think either of these points of view are in the slightest bit true.What I do think is that we have to select the parenting style that suits each of our families. Some of us choose to try and pre-empt what our babies need by structuring their feeds and sleeps and others elect to follow their babies lead. The assumption that I don't have similarly gorgeous memories to jojobaby of my children because I structure the day is ridiculous!

By all means burn the CLB book if you like but at least READ it first so you can see for yourself nowhere does it advocate leaving babies to cry, not making eye contact and generally adopting a Victorian-style distance from your baby.

[The Nappy Lady]

Other than the odd bit of baby sitting I hadn't had any contact with babies before I had my own, so I used GF as a (very rough) guide so I had some idea of how a day would work. I never really tried to follow the full routine, but it did give me an idea of when naps would probably happen, that a bath before bed helps to settle them etc.

I think every parent finds their own routine and tactics in the end, and for many the best way to do this is to read a few books and take the bits that work from there, plus forums, conversations with other parents, and of course good old fashioned instincts. First time around I think it is the latter that is hardest of all to trust in, and so probably those of us with the least experience of children lean most heavily on the books, but I reckon we all end up finding a path that works for our own family.

Surely that is what good parenting is all about?

Molly

[cate]

PM'd you again.

[Bumpkin]

I'm also a Gina fan in a 'lite' way - didn't start looking at her routines properly for the first couple of months, but found baby B so much easier to manage if he had enough sleep and fed at regular times. I have had a couple of comments on how lucky I am he goes to bed at a reasonable time and naps well but it didn't happen by accident - took a fair bit of (loving) effort with minimal stress to him thanks to Gina and he is now very flexible and will nap in car / buggy if need be. It's dull and hard work sticking to a routine at times, but I think it's important that babies eat well and sleep enough for their own development / growth / happiness. Don't like talking about his sleeping though - sure to jinx things!! Also aware that not all babies eat / sleep the same, but Gina definitely helped me.

[Keef]

It's a case of each to their own, but I personally think she's a tw@t, and an unqualified one at that. She cares not for the baby, it's like it's just an annoyance that needs to be seen and not heard whenever possible.

Just my opinion.

[Smiler]

Am not a fan of Gina Ford, think it is mainly the writing style that I found objectionable, it seemed really bossy and judgmental.

[njc97]

Keef, is that an opinion based on reading the books or reading rants about her? Because I certainly don't think "she cares not for the baby" or that she thinks they are "an annoyance that needs to be seen and not heard". But that is the impression you can get from reading other people's opinions of her.

[Keef]

I've not read all her books, but have read SOME of the main one (by main, I mean the really popular one). Didn't finish it though, because I couldn't read any more.

Like I say, each to their own, just not for me or the wife.

[Smiler]

We had better be careful what we say, apparently she sued Mumsnet for what Mums had said about her!

[R&A]

>" is that an opinion based on reading the books "

i completely agree. I listened to all the rants yesterday on the tv, radio and from some friends of mine and i had to check the cover of the book i was reading because it didn't resemble what people were saying. In fact some of the comments completely contradicted her book. Perhaps the book i'm reading is a toned down version and her original book was a lot more rigid?

It's like she hits a raw nerve with some people and they get VERY emotional yet the arguments against don't come across as rational to me.

Personally, i have found her approach very logical and full of common sense which is why i'm giving her a shot. So far other than the actual suggested routine times this is all that she's said:

Don't let a baby get over tired - newborns shouldn't be awake more than 2 hours if possible

Dont' think by keeping the baby awake longer during the day they'll sleep more at night

Allow time for a baby to fully digest the previous meal before feeding again

If a baby cries more than 10 minutes then there's probably something wrong i.e. hunger, cold, nappy

Always feed a baby when they are hungry

Don't fall into the trap of sleep associations namely - feeding to sleep, rocking to sleep etc as you'll be a slave to them inthe longer term which is no good for baby or mum

This isn't judgemental or cruel - just sound advice which i'm grateful for

I'm just glad i've read these points rather than have to learn this the hard way

[helena handbasket]

I don't think it's any different when I consult a GF book for tips on night waking than when I look at a Julia Child book to remind myself how to make a roux......

What I can say is I would like to BURN all of my Dr. Sears books, what a load of crap. If you don't co-sleep, exclusively breastfeed, and "wear" your baby for the first year you will have a fat dumb ABSO for an adult. Okay, but what if you have breatfeeding issues and a baby who will not co-sleep and hates being in a sling? His solution? Keep doing it, no matter how miserable it makes you and baby, keep doing it. Now there's some positive parenting advice. I'd like those first five months back please, Dr. Sears!

I would take the realism of Gina Ford over that "in a perfect world at any price" nonsense any day.

[Keef]

Don't let a baby get over tired - newborns shouldn't be awake more than 2 hours if possible

Surely this is an impossible generalisation though. 2 newborn babies can be as different as 2 adult humans.

I'm no expert, just basing this on my limited experience with my daughter, and friend's babies.

[veryseriousgirl]

I have a six week old, and, like others, we follow loosely follow Gina. It was a real help for us - we tried to do things "by instinct" for the first week or so, but our baby stayed awake for up to six hours at a time (mostly during the day) getting grumpier and grumpier. The book mainly allowed us to understand when the baby was likely to be tired and put her to bed so she actually sleeps (and is consequently delightful rather than angry at the world when she is awake).

We see the early sleeping through the night as an added bonus - our main reward is that, when it's time to play with our daughter, she's alert and happy and cooing (mostly - she still occasionally gets grumpy), and if she gets upset, I know she's fed, changed and well rested, so we can work from there to determine if she's too hot or too cold or just needs a little bit of extra cuddling.