Memorials

[Marmora Man]

Over recent years there has been a growing tendency to commemorate deaths, particularly deaths by traffic accidents, with informal roadside shrines and flowers. In the immediate aftermath creating such a impromptu shrine is understandable - tho' maybe not to everyone's taste. Churchyards and cemeteries are more conventional places for permanent memorials.

The one's I spot most often are on Grove Vale, there's another near Victoria, 2 on the A2 on the way to Dartford Bridge and I spotted another in Cornwall this weekend.

The most recent is on East Dulwich Road following the tragic accident two weeks ago.

Question - how long should such informal and impromptu memorials be allowed to remain? I instinctively abhor unnecessary rules and legislation but there comes a point when the shrine is are way past its prime and guidance might help both the council and relatives - withered flowers, fading photos, tattered football scarves, waterstained cards and letters do not inspire and surely do little for grieving relatives and friends.

I am sure local councils are reluctant to "tidy up" for fear of offending relatives and friends but doing nothing at all isn't sensible either. Is four weeks too short a period, perhaps six months is too long - what would be about right?

[Jah Lush]

As soon as the person killed is buried or cremated would about right to me.

[Roll Deep]

There's a memorial commemorating the death of a Gypsy on Sydenham Hill who was killed in a traffic accident in 2007. It's been there for a long time and there's been much local discussion focusing on it's removal. I think technically it lies on Dulwich estate land, but it's also embedded into someones private garden so I suppose it's up to them.

The added problem is that family and friends of the deceased still hold vigils, and this can lead to motorists being distracted.

[Jah Lush]

Of course I'd forgotten about that Roll Deep. That is really over the top. I suppose it is a bit of a concern for the locals. The tree on Barnes Common where Marc Bolan died in 1977 still has memorials regularly tied to it.

[daizie]

I always drive past it Roll Deep. I sometimes see people standing there looking at it. I thought it wass quite moving that people cared enough . He was obviously very loved . Just curious , how do you know he was a gypsy ?

[Brendan]

Memorials, shrines and the like have sprung up spontaneously throughout history for various different reasons. Some of them last eventually become churches or monuments while most are just forgotten with the memory of the event.

They are physical expressions of the feelings of an individual/s and unless they are causing a danger or obstruction I don?t think it would be particularly polite to get rid of them.

It is worth trying to keep in mind that just because something hasn?t affected us directly or we don?t identify with the sentiment aren?t grounds to try to contrive a reason to get rid of it.

[Roll Deep]

"how do you know he was a gypsy?"

There have been a few articles in the local press, and it was mentioned on the Sydenham Forum.

[giggirl]

Jah Lush Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Of course I'd forgotten about that Roll Deep. That

> is really over the top. I suppose it is a bit of a

> concern for the locals. The tree on Barnes Common

> where Marc Bolan died in 1977 still has memorials

> regularly tied to it.

An ex-boyfriend of mine interviewed Marc Bolan a couple of weeks before he died and told him (my ex) that he was going to die young and in a car accident. Creepy huh. I totally believe my ex because he interviewed everyone and hardly ever spoke about the people he inteviewed. The tree in Barnes where he died is indeed always adorned, all these decades later.

White bicycles - there are a few of those dotted about and they make me shudder.

[Mick Mac]

"The Sydenham forum" - you two timing git

[giggirl]

Having given it a bit of thought, I think memorials should be left for three months max. Anything longer than that and they look way too tatty. As sorry as I am for someone's loss, I think it's depressing to see a faded shrine day in and day out.

[candj]

There's a dreadfully sad memorial somewhere near to Bromley/in Bromley (I was lost so didn't know where I was) with a load of stuffed teddy bears on two or three trees by the side of the road. I literally had tears in my eyes when I saw it the two times I passed it. They looked like they had been there for years.

My husband had an eighteen year old cousin die in a tragic car accident in Ireland and his memorial by the side of the road is an actual headstone, a bit more permanent although he's not buried there. Sad indeed.

[????]

The Gypsies 'grave' near Newmarket (know it Mick?) has been there 100 years and still gets fresh flowers

[Bluerevolution]

There's been a memorial to my great great great grandfather in Manchester since 1869. I saw it for the first time last November

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss116/tueartsboots/utf-8BSU1HMDAyMDcuanBn-1.jpg

[ianr]

Brendan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> They are physical expressions of the feelings of

> an individual/s and unless they are causing a

> danger or obstruction I don?t think it would be

> particularly polite to get rid of them.

When they're put in place, yes. But what of, say, the dead and rotting detritus of flowers and plastic at the base of a lamppost in Grove Vale? What would any of the people who'd contributed to it say if they were asked what they thought of and felt about their tribute now? Do they even know it's still there? Are they ever planning to tidy, replace or remove it? Would they take more care of flowers left on a loved one's grave?

[steveo]

When the news of Bolan's fatal crash broke, someone burgled his house (according to London Babylon)

[Roll Deep]

"When the news of Bolan's fatal crash broke, someone burgled his house"

Looks like todays musicians should be grateful for file sharing after all, steveo.

[Ann]

This is tricky this one. Interestingly the 'remembrances' just across the junction where the number 12 Bus killed a 12 year old girl about three years ago appears to have been cleared up, but only recently. These roadside shrines are fairly common in Europe; have seen them in Greece and France.

I feel personally that the death of Princess Diana back in 1997 may have been the precursor to this habit, it would seem thay have cropped up ever since and now almost inevitably if there has been a road related death.

Road fatalities have always occurred but I can vouch that I never saw any ( roadside condolences) for the first three decades of my life.

So why do we need them now?

[brum]

Roll Deep Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "how do you know he was a gypsy?"

>

> There have been a few articles in the local press,

> and it was mentioned on the Sydenham Forum.

This makes sense. Gypsies are very respectful of their dead and really go to town with memorials to their departed.

I think one possible benefit of them is that it hopefully acts as a deterrent to road users who see them... it may make them think about their own driving practices....

[PeckhamRose]

I sort of thing they should be allowed to last for as long as naturally possible, until not just the flowers die and fade but the sellotape sticking them and the wrapping paper to the lamppost falls off.

This is because as road users we need to be constantly minded of not just the danger, but the fact that someone actually did die at this place.

The white bicycle idea was just brilliant.

[woofmarkthedog]

I only discovered 30 years later that a memorial to my father & the 99 others killed in a Malaysian hijacking existed

Shocked as I was all this time later , it does make a difference

W**F

[Roll Deep]

Sorry to hear that, Woof.

[woofmarkthedog]

No...

really I've had a long time to reach this point of acceptance, so it's discovery by my nephew was a joy

I'm going to visit some time this year with my sister

I'll be the same age as my Pa was at the time

God, I know it sounds depressing to read but I am very happy to go & finally put him to rest & move on

We, me & him deserve it

W**F

[GSJ57]

Gosh Woof, that was back in the Seventies wasn't it? You and your sister must have been young. So very sad.

[woofmarkthedog]

Yes...

But the memorials are to remember their lives, a celebration of living

So for me, seeing them is a joy

"life goes on today"

It's as good as we get

I think ....

W:)-DF

[pablogrande]

Went swimming in Bromley at the weekend, popped into the shopping mall and on the first floor was a park stylee wooden bench with brass plaque 'in loving memory of xxx xxxxxx who loved to shop'

On the subject of whether roadside memorials are a reminder or a distraction, I saw a woman studying the cards etc currently on East Dulwich road but she carried on looking over at them as she walked into the road straight in front of an oncoming bus, luckily the driver braked hard in time