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The East Dulwich Forum
The Bishop, The EDT, The Great Exhibition, the Actress or another?
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messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by Reg Smeeton February 10, 05:39PM

Some perspective - in 1985 an off-duty policeman, George Hammond, was stabbed at a very similar location on Lordship Lane. And I think that was late evening rather than the small hours. I'd say East Dulwich felt less safe then than it does now (in those days the East Dulwich Tavern was a hang-out for crooks, for example).

messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by lidsey February 10, 05:55PM

Alan Medic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HelBel65 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Terrible news.
> >
> > I was a bit taken aback to hear Andrew Castle
> on
> > LBC this morning referring to ED as ‘a rough
> area’
> > where you ‘really have to watch yourself’ Maybe
> > he’s right after this.
>
> I listen to Andrew Castle fairly often and he is
> particularly uninformed for a broadcaster.

How dare you discuss on this post about whats the best part of East Dulwich to live in No consideration for the poor family and friends of this local man .

messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by DulwichBorn&Bred February 10, 05:55PM

We also had that poor boy that was stabbed after visiting a party at Dulwich Hamlet. There was also a non fatal stabbing last year. Plus one by the train station and one in a hostel both fatal.

messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by CatrionaHelen February 10, 06:21PM

I live in the area that was cordoned off for most of the morning. I took some cups of tea out to the police who were redirecting people and managing the road closure etc. They said they were surprised to be attending this kind of incident in LL. But a person died. Parents no longer have a son, people have lost a friend. What does it matter what postcode it happened in?

messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by savvygirl February 10, 06:21PM

I am slightly confused as Robert Poste's Child wrote "And to the poor people who work in the shop and apparently tried to stop an argument. A horrible thing for them to have to deal with."

Not sure whether this means the victim and assailant were arguing in the 24 hour shop prior to the attack. That would make the staff key witnesses. I hope they catch the assailant soon. It's a terrible tragedy and my heart goes out to the victim's family.

messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by JohnL February 10, 06:24PM

DulwichFox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not many if not any places open around here at
> 02.30am
>
> Not many people either I would of thought ??

Bishop closes at 2:00 on a Saturday - I often used to stay until then (only going out at 11:00 PM mind) as I liked a late night pint.

messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by creditwheredue February 10, 06:37PM

savvygirl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am slightly confused as Robert Poste's Child
> wrote "And to the poor people who work in the shop
> and apparently tried to stop an argument. A
> horrible thing for them to have to deal with."
>
> Not sure whether this means the victim and
> assailant were arguing in the 24 hour shop prior
> to the attack. That would make the staff key
> witnesses. I hope they catch the assailant soon.
> It's a terrible tragedy and my heart goes out to
> the victim's family.

ITV News said the victim and assailant were arguing in the shop.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 10, 06:37pm by creditwheredue.

messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by Robert Poste's Child February 10, 07:05PM

That was according to some of the press coverage earlier in the day. I don't know what happened any more than anyone else on here, but it was clear they witnessed some of it so it must have been really terrifying for them.

messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by roywj February 10, 07:52PM

Reg Smeeton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some perspective - in 1985 an off-duty policeman,
> George Hammond, was stabbed at a very similar
> location on Lordship Lane. And I think that was
> late evening rather than the small hours. I'd say
> East Dulwich felt less safe then than it does now
> (in those days the East Dulwich Tavern was a
> hang-out for crooks, for example).


[youtu.be]

messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by NewWave February 10, 08:03PM

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> East Dulwich is hardly crime free or particularly
> safe. It's absolutely tragic that a young man lost
> his life but please....don't divert the attention
> this post needs.
>
> It's really NOT about the debating the public
> perception of the area.

totally agree.

messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by ianjm February 10, 08:29PM

NewWave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> totally agree.

This forum is full of middle class Dulwich residents. That's who's writing posts and who's read the posts. Of course people are going to talk about how it affects the area, that's what this is for. If people want to set out some sort of social justice platform I don't think this is the place.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 10, 09:09pm by ianjm.

messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by hellosailor February 10, 08:36PM

It’s got nothing to do with the area it happened in, this was a poor poor bloke who declined to give a random person a cigarette and had his throat cut. I’d guess the person was extremely mentally unwell. I think it’s pretty crass to start debating what is does or doesn’t say about the area. It’s a horrific thing to happen.

messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by ianjm February 10, 09:13PM

hellosailor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It’s got nothing to do with the area it happened
> in, this was a poor poor bloke who declined to
> give a random person a cigarette and had his
> throat cut. I’d guess the person was extremely
> mentally unwell. I think it’s pretty crass to
> start debating what is does or doesn’t say about
> the area. It’s a horrific thing to happen.

The only reason we're talking about it is because it was in this area. There was a shooting and two other stabbings in London this morning. There were 150 murders in Brazil today. I don't see a thread about any of them.

I'm sorry for the man who's been killed and his family, really I am, but to suggest we have to respect some sort of online mourning period and not talk about this in context strikes me as a bit unnecessary. I guess if that makes me crass, I'm crass.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was february 10, 09:19pm by ianjm.

messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by Robert Poste's Child February 10, 09:14PM

They were responding initially to a silly claim by a GLR presenter after this horrible incident, so a slightly different thing.

I'd add that it's not the right place to speculate about the person's mental health - I'd say that anyway, but see earlier comments about any future legal case. I'm sure we wouldn't want to make this any harder for the family and friends of the man who lost his life.

messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by rendelharris February 10, 09:23PM

ianjm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The only reason we're talking about it is because
> it was in this area. There was a shooting and two
> other stabbings in London this morning. There were
> 150 murders in Brazil today. I don't see a thread
> about any of them.

Well yes, and I don't suppose people in Brazil are talking about a murder in East Dulwich. That doesn't imply a lack of concern about others on either side, people will naturally be concerned about such happenings in their area and discuss them, particularly on a forum specifically dedicated to discussing local issues.

Entirely agree with RPC that speculations as to causes and motives are not helpful when none of us knows the story, the police have the suspect in custody, let justice take its course.

ETA correction, I mistakenly thought the suspect was in custody, apparently not. Hope this changes soon.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 10, 10:07pm by rendelharris.

messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by se22cat February 10, 09:50PM

First of all, I'd just like to say how sorry I am that this has happened; we live a minute away from the location and my thoughts go out to the man's family.

Regarding how the area has changed; despite the increase in muggings, personally, I feel the area seems a lot safer in the past year compared to the previous five. The number of habitual substance abusers hanging around the Goose Green area, many of which would aggressively harass people for money has significantly dropped, which I assume must be down to one or more of the crack houses being shut down by the police. Of course, the loss of our local Police station and the rarity of actual beat cops has had a major impact in the rise of crime, violent or otherwise in the area.

Perhaps due to ED losing it's "cool" status amongst the 18-25 year olds largely from outside the area not filling the pubs around Goose Green and the streets are less coated with vomit and there's definitely less of the odd nasty fight on the way home waking me up. With the drop in younger people with disposable incomes and hungry nostrils, the previous abundance of street dealers have all but abandoned the area and seem to just drop in to do business by car these days.

As a frequent late night customer of the store in question, encounters with aggressive beggars, more often than not seemingly with brains fried on long term skunk and alcohol abuse are unfortunately and annoyingly a very regular occurrence, it's no wonder the people working there look stressed during the night shifts.

messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by Delainie February 10, 09:52PM

I can't imagine how his friends and family are feeling,terrible news.I hope the police catch the scum and throw away the key whether in a prison or mental institution I don't care just take his freedom away for a very very long time.its just so depressing hearing of stabbings so often,I don't know what is wrong with some people.

messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by Bic Basher February 10, 10:28PM

ITV News this evening.

[youtu.be]

messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by ianjm February 10, 11:01PM

rendelharris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Entirely agree with RPC that speculations as to
> causes and motives are not helpful when none of us
> knows the story, the police have the suspect in
> custody, let justice take its course.

Fair enough, agreed on that point.

messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by Ghlpc February 11, 12:04AM

Reg Smeeton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some perspective - in 1985 an off-duty policeman,
> George Hammond, was stabbed at a very similar
> location on Lordship Lane. And I think that was
> late evening rather than the small hours. I'd say
> East Dulwich felt less safe then than it does now
> (in those days the East Dulwich Tavern was a
> hang-out for crooks, for example).


Remember that incident well. He was the husband of our head teacher at the then Grove Vale Priamry School (now goose green).

messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by bellina February 11, 12:08AM

one of those kebab shops have some dodgy stuff going on in the back,

messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by Charles Martel February 11, 02:44AM

Reg Smeeton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some perspective - in 1985 an off-duty policeman,
> George Hammond, was stabbed at a very similar
> location on Lordship Lane. And I think that was
> late evening rather than the small hours. I'd say
> East Dulwich felt less safe then than it does now
> (in those days the East Dulwich Tavern was a
> hang-out for crooks, for example).

Regardless of how you may feel East Dulwich is obviously not safe. A man's dead body lying on Lordship Lane is proof of that.

[www.dailymail.co.uk]

Crime is not caused by areas, it is caused by specific individuals, criminals who are as mobile as the rest of us. Unless you believe that we live in some sort of magically protected enclave, we are as exposed as anywhere else to crime of this type. A man was stabbed through the head in Dulwich park in 2017 by someone who wanted the price of a bottle of rum. Why do people persist in deluding themselves? Nowhere in London is safe.

messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by Titus89 February 11, 07:12AM

The police removed a (very nice) Mercedes from opposite the shop yesterday afternoon. Looked like an Uber Exec type.

messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by Alan Medic February 11, 08:14AM

lidsey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Alan Medic Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > HelBel65 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Terrible news.
> > >
> > > I was a bit taken aback to hear Andrew Castle
> > on
> > > LBC this morning referring to ED as ‘a rough
> > area’
> > > where you ‘really have to watch yourself’
> Maybe
> > > he’s right after this.
> >
> > I listen to Andrew Castle fairly often and he
> is
> > particularly uninformed for a broadcaster.
>
> How dare you discuss on this post about whats the
> best part of East Dulwich to live in No
> consideration for the poor family and friends of
> this local man .


What exactly has upset you by the above?

messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by Penguin68 February 11, 08:36AM

Re references to Camberwell - an old Gazette would put the area in the old borough of Camberwell - absorbed into Southwark - hence Camberwell Old and New Cemeteries way south of Goose Green. ED was once Camberwell as it is now Southwark. Random acts of extreme violence can, sadly, happen anywhere. Until more is known of this terrible incident attempts to draw conclusions about its 'typicality' for the area must fail. 24 hour shops (which are really of value) will, by definition where they are not the norm, draw people in in the small hours who would not necessarily normally consider the area 'local'.

messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich groveattachment
Posted by lavender27 February 11, 09:51AM

A candle lit for the deceased and his family.

Attachments: a candle lit for our loved ones[1].gif (32.8KB)  
messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by goldfinger February 11, 11:15AM

What is this world coming to. Another young life taken away from us. Punishment should be severe, bring Hanging back. This government is so concerned about Brexit but not everyday life. If we punish these b....tards like they do in other countires they would think twice before they commit the crime. Its nothing to do with the area, stabbings are becoming a daily crime. My heart goes to the family of the victim.

messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by rendelharris February 11, 11:25AM

goldfinger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Punishment should be severe,
> bring Hanging back. This government is so
> concerned about Brexit but not everyday life. If
> we punish these b....tards like they do in other
> countires they would think twice before they
> commit the crime.

Sorry, thread's going off topic but can't let that stand. Briefly, a) do you think someone enraged, disturbed or simply callous enough to cut someone's throat over a cigarette is going to stop and think oh, I'll only get twenty years in prison for this, not executed, so I'll go ahead? And b) it has been demonstrated over and over again that capital punishment does not act as a deterrent, most notably in the USA where states that do not use the death penalty consistently have lower murder rates than those that do.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 11, 11:26am by rendelharris.

messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by Bic Basher February 11, 11:37AM

The victim has been named.

[metro.co.uk]

messageRe: Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove
Posted by dulrezzo February 11, 11:51AM

I went to Payless last night and saw people were laying flowers outside. There was a man shouting about it being a gang war and pouring alcohol all over the flowers - does anyone know anything about this, made me feel sick

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