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The East Dulwich Forum
The Bishop, The EDT, The Great Exhibition, the Actress or another?
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messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by Ashlar April 27, 11:55AM

I think having a one way system for walkers is a good idea, but the Highway Code suggests the opposite. You are safest if you are walking towards oncoming traffic as you can see the cars coming. That way if you want to overtake a slower walker you can step into the road easier as you can see what’s coming. So effectively you walk facing the traffic with houses to your right.

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by seenbeen April 27, 02:01PM

Ashlar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think having a one way system for walkers is a
> good idea, but the Highway Code suggests the
> opposite. You are safest if you are walking
> towards oncoming traffic as you can see the cars
> coming. That way if you want to overtake a slower
> walker you can step into the road easier as you
> can see what’s coming. So effectively you walk
> facing the traffic with houses to your right.

Anyone who walks in the countryside where there is no pavement knows this. The problem we have is that there are pushchairs, kids on scooters, bikes and even adults on bikes, on the pavement. Then there are more cars on the road recently, bikes on the road and then joggers going both ways on the pavement- so if you need to nip in the road to avoid the aforementioned- because 9 times out of 10 they will not shift for you - you are taking your life in your hands....people walking hand in hand are a problem too.

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by NewWave April 27, 08:32PM

seenbeen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ashlar Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think having a one way system for walkers is
> a
> > good idea, but the Highway Code suggests the
> > opposite. You are safest if you are walking
> > towards oncoming traffic as you can see the
> cars
> > coming. That way if you want to overtake a
> slower
> > walker you can step into the road easier as you
> > can see what’s coming. So effectively you walk
> > facing the traffic with houses to your right.
>
> Anyone who walks in the countryside where there is
> no pavement knows this. The problem we have is
> that there are pushchairs, kids on scooters, bikes
> and even adults on bikes, on the pavement. Then
> there are more cars on the road recently, bikes on
> the road and then joggers going both ways on the
> pavement- so if you need to nip in the road to
> avoid the aforementioned- because 9 times out of
> 10 they will not shift for you - you are taking
> your life in your hands....people walking hand in
> hand are a problem too.

yup totally agree

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by Penguin68 April 27, 10:11PM

but the Highway Code suggests the opposite. You are safest if you are walking towards oncoming traffic as you can see the cars coming.

The Highway Code is specifically talking here about those walking on (rural) roads, not on suburban pavements - on which it is entirely silent. If you are walking on roads then walking towards and on the same side as oncoming traffic ensures that you see it coming and can step onto the verge if necessary (and they may also be more likely to see you). Wholly irrelevant if you have a pavement to walk on, as cars are generally discouraged from mounting these.

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by malumbu April 27, 10:43PM

And remember if you are walking in the dark, where something bright/reflective or carry a rolled up newspaper. Sadly I can't find the public information film from 50 years ago advising this. But here is a nice bit of advice about Covid-19 from Living Streets

[www.livingstreets.org.uk]

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by rahrahrah April 28, 09:17AM

The pavements don't allow for people to walk down the street maintaining a safe 2 metre distance from one another. Most cities have extended pavements and also introduced temporary bike lanes to help people to get about. London is one of the few large cities not to have done so.

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by Plough Man April 28, 10:36AM

Penguin68 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> but the Highway Code suggests the opposite. You
> are safest if you are walking towards oncoming
> traffic as you can see the cars coming.
>
> The Highway Code is specifically talking here
> about those walking on (rural) roads, not on
> suburban pavements - on which it is entirely
> silent. If you are walking on roads then walking
> towards and on the same side as oncoming traffic
> ensures that you see it coming and can step onto
> the verge if necessary (and they may also be more
> likely to see you). Wholly irrelevant if you have
> a pavement to walk on, as cars are generally
> discouraged from mounting these.

Have to disagree about not being relevant where pavements are available because of another safety consideration.

Pedestrians are much more vulnerable to attackers/abductors/muggers/snatchers who approach in a car from behind on the same side of the road as you. If you are facing the oncoming cars, you can be much more aware of what is happening or likely to happen and take evasive action such as running past the car because the car is unlikely to reverse against the flow of traffic

It's all about minimising risks.

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by Penguin68 April 28, 10:43AM

Pedestrians are much more vulnerable to attackers/abductors/muggers/snatchers who approach in a car from behind on the same side of the road as you. If you are facing the oncoming cars, you can be much more aware of what is happening or likely to happen and take evasive action such as running past the car because the car is unlikely to reverse against the flow of traffic

1. I was talking about and responding to what's actually in the Highway Code

2. If you walk on the inside of the pavement (nearest the houses) you are far less likely to be attacked (you can't readily be reached from a passing car or bike) - and if you are not visibly on your mobile phone or swinging your handbag similarly. Most suburban streets are sufficiently parked up that these cars additionally act as a barrier.

3. Suburban streets, particularly at the moment, are surprisingly traffic free - so the option of 'backing up', were that a sensible suggestion, is far more available to criminals than on a busy urban or shopping street.

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by seenbeen April 28, 10:53AM

Penguin68 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pedestrians are much more vulnerable to
> attackers/abductors/muggers/snatchers who approach
> in a car from behind on the same side of the road
> as you. If you are facing the oncoming cars, you
> can be much more aware of what is happening or
> likely to happen and take evasive action such as
> running past the car because the car is unlikely
> to reverse against the flow of traffic
>
> 1. I was talking about and responding to what's
> actually in the Highway Code
>
> 2. If you walk on the inside of the pavement
> (nearest the houses) you are far less likely to be
> attacked (you can't readily be reached from a
> passing car or bike) - and if you are not visibly
> on your mobile phone or swinging your handbag
> similarly. Most suburban streets are sufficiently
> parked up that these cars additionally act as a
> barrier.
>
> 3. Suburban streets, particularly at the moment,
> are surprisingly traffic free - so the option of
> 'backing up', were that a sensible suggestion, is
> far more available to criminals than on a busy
> urban or shopping street.

If I'm out for my hour of exercise I do not take anything except house keys and hand gel. The problem is nipping into the road out of the way of the multiple obstructions on the pavements- in these unprecedented times-

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by achoo April 29, 11:23AM

I went for a quick walk around the Horniman Gardens and I saw numerous people sat on blankets with picnics and drinks, tanning in the sun..... yes you are not near anyone but thats because everyone else is at home.

I find it extremely selfish as not everyone has an outdoor space and would love to do the same.

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by Cyclemonkey April 29, 01:26PM

Tanning in the sun? Not in the last couple of days you didn't it's been cold and peeing it down with rain.

Why is it selfish to use a public open space responsibly? Surely if you were there to observe these "selfish people" daring to use a public space you were also using it?

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by Penguin68 April 29, 01:51PM

The government is urging people in lock-down to take Vitamin D supplements - yet the police (and the mavens) are cracking down on those sunbathing (when otherwise socially distanced). I am one of the lucky ones with a garden to sit out in, and I don't object to solitary individuals sunning themselves outside. Chances, in this weather, would be a fine thing. If we can get social distancing right (we're getting better, but still as I'm pounded past by joggers almost brushing me unless I leap out of the way - not that good - but most joggers are now far better at making detours round walkers) - then more people could be out more of the time.

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by edcam April 29, 01:52PM

Because it's against the rules and as the poster said, many don't have their own outside space but are able to abide by the rules.

It's as if these people think they're special and don't have to do what everyone else does (like the ignorant faction among the joggers.) Their mentality (plus weak lockdown enforcement) is one of the reasons we have such horrific numbers now compared to the rest of Europe.

Cyclemonkey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Why is it selfish to use a public open space
> responsibly? Surely if you were there to observe
> these "selfish people" daring to use a public
> space you were also using it?

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by KidKruger April 29, 02:09PM

what edcam said.

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by Blah Blah April 29, 02:43PM

I would also recommend SAD lamps to those for whom lack of sunlight affects mood.

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by malumbu April 29, 02:47PM

I suppose one good thing that has come out of this is that joggers are now public enemy #1 and no longer cyclists.....

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by malumbu April 29, 02:48PM

And sunbathers may also have crept ahead of cyclists, who will rise up the ranks next?

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by Cyclemonkey April 29, 03:24PM

I am a person with no outdoor space and I am fine with people using public spaces in a responsible way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was april 29, 03:25pm by Cyclemonkey.

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by binkylilyput April 29, 05:22PM

Hands up who has a garden, balcony or outside space?

Yep, thought so

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by wordsworth April 29, 05:53PM

I do and am very grateful for it.

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by JohnL April 30, 01:27PM

binkylilyput Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hands up who has a garden, balcony or outside
> space?
>
> Yep, thought so


Balcony - but I hate the Sun (newspaper too) and prefer overcast and drizzle - always have - not sure if that means something - certainly wouldn't sunbathe.

It actually annoys me when weather people refer to sunny weather as if we all look forward to it.

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by seenbeen April 30, 03:06PM

I have but it's been unusable except for weekends until the last 2 weeks due to noise and dust from the builders next door. They have put a fence up but there is still noise, and I've got roadworks outside to look forward to starting on Monday.
With vulnerable adults and people trying to work in the house it's a joke- and no lifting of the lockdown for the foreseeable.
And judging from these photos in the DM it looks grim for the future
[www.dailymail.co.uk]

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by binkylilyput April 30, 04:00PM

The point being that those with available outside space need to be kinder and stop finger pointing at those who choose to sit down in a park within a safe distance from others for a little bit.

Not having outside space available (which the vast majority of East Dulwichers do) during this time is really harsh.

As with most things, this lockdown is hitting the socially disadvantaged hardest.......and the judgements and scandal from people who have no need to sit in a park is really shameful.

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by malumbu April 30, 04:21PM

I think best due to ignore (avoid) East Dulwich all together From what I read on this site it appears to have turned into a set from Escape from New York with dangerous joggers, wild dogs and stir crazy hipsters wandering around in gangs. [www.imdb.com] Fortunately much better vibe in neighbouring areas. Good film for the lock down by the way.

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by jimlad48 April 30, 10:02PM

LAst week I was running down a pavement towards four people, all 20 somethings, walking abreast across the width of the pavement next to each other - they refused change formation to allow others past, and didnt narrow up even though it wasnt possible to get in road at that spot - I politely called out 'social distancing please' to them as they refused to make room for others and they said 'but we all live together' as I was channelled to run right past them. They refused to move for anyone - very selfish.

As a runner I proactively get in the road at the earliest opportunity when I see people, and I always say thank you to those who wait for me unexpectedly - but please pedestrians, you have responsibilities too...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was april 30, 10:06pm by jimlad48.

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by Penguin68 May 01, 07:24AM

My wife and I exercise walk together and frequently walk in single file to allow passage of others. Only parents with young children should be walking together as you've described above. If we all achieved sensitive pavement usage thinking of others that would be good.

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by KidKruger May 01, 09:50AM

Perhaps the pedestrians thought you were commenting on their closeness to one another, not to yourself.
In this instance why not just run around the cars parked on kerbside, or stop and stand to one side (between cars ?) as the FOUR pedestrians passed ?
This seems to be the difference between runners and walkers in these situations, walkers are able to stop/slow-down/negotiate, runners seems more inclined to continue momentum (they are out for a RUN after all!).
Unfortunately, sounds like distance wasn't kept, between the 5 of you that's what you decided.
The virus doesn't care who was at fault, or felt entitlement, you've got a couple of weeks now to see if that instance infected you - you'll probably never know whether you infected any of the other four (and by association their families and vulnerable people).

jimlad48 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LAst week I was running down a pavement towards
> four people, all 20 somethings, walking abreast
> across the width of the pavement next to each
> other - they refused change formation to allow
> others past, and didnt narrow up even though it
> wasnt possible to get in road at that spot - I
> politely called out 'social distancing please' to
> them as they refused to make room for others and
> they said 'but we all live together' as I was
> channelled to run right past them. They refused to
> move for anyone - very selfish.
>
> As a runner I proactively get in the road at the
> earliest opportunity when I see people, and I
> always say thank you to those who wait for me
> unexpectedly - but please pedestrians, you have
> responsibilities too...

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by jimlad48 May 01, 11:40AM

Kidkruger

As noted, at the one specific spot, it was not possible to enter or safely run in the road.

The 4 people were walking line abreast, blocking the entire pavement for anyone - not just runners. I do my best to be as considerate as possible, I would have appreciated it if these people had done likewise.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was may 01, 11:41am by jimlad48.

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by edcam May 01, 08:37PM

There are no soft options. This country is failing badly. In no small part due to the lack of observation of the rules. This mentality of "being kind" about it and "what's the problem if people are distancing" is one of the reasons we have one of the worst death rates in Europe. It's not OK to go out unless you are exercising or shopping and even then you need to be careful. Why is your exceptionalism more important than anything else? Go to the park but don't sit around in it.

binkylilyput Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The point being that those with available outside
> space need to be kinder and stop finger pointing
> at those who choose to sit down in a park within a
> safe distance from others for a little bit.
>
> Not having outside space available (which the vast
> majority of East Dulwichers do) during this time
> is really harsh.
>
> As with most things, this lockdown is hitting the
> socially disadvantaged hardest.......and the
> judgements and scandal from people who have no
> need to sit in a park is really shameful.

messageRe: Ignoring lockdown in ED
Posted by fishbiscuits May 02, 12:09AM

If pedestrians are walking side by side, when someone comes the other way they should really switch to single file, if possible. Whether the person coming the other way is walking, running, in a wheelchair, or on a skateboard.

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