mockney piers

I think it's called begging the question isnt it?

Ha ha yes, definitely flattered, damn iPhone!!

The god of light entertainment Bobby McFerrin said "don't worry be happy". Works for me.

3G card or a dongle. Be careful, if you get it here data will probably be subject to the usual roaming charges, which on O2 are ?3mb. You might be better of buying one when you get to Spain. Whoops, cross post, David's being far more useful!

"Without it you either turn into an animal, madman or an empty man." You're describing something like 75%+ of the uk population. I know the daily mail would have us believe we're all animals, but I happen to think most people I meet are pretty nice, god or no god. In fact it's the last thing i think about, i generally judge people on how they are as people.

Great thinkers to immigrants, in one step? really? Wow.

Keynes, partly responsible in a weird way. But granted, no real statesmen. Mind you not everything can be fixed as such, we'll muddle through.

There was a very good article about the so called Barclays (Nat West? couldn't care enough to remember) 4 who got extradited. The press went razy about unequal extradition treaties, about the orange jump suits and manacles, about the rape in federal penitentiaries. They got extradited (for crimes they bloody well committed) were put up in hotels paid for by the state (not ours) during the 'remand' period and basically got slaps on wrists. I suspect this lad will be scared a bit then offered a job.

I totally sympathise annaj, I've just had to do the same in the lounge, they even had the same blimmin title...on the same page...!!! But not everyone has worn slippers has worn (in both sense) slippers here for three years, so i have sympathy when people don't realise. Mind you I can't think of a more pleasant not polite, nor generally all round person I'd like to be told off by than you. Except maybe citizen....or quids, if he had a gin & tonic.

Or the other Identically titled thread. But yep, he'll be missed.

You're in the realms of metaphysics rather than rationality there MM by claiming that continuation of the species is purposeful. And why does doing good as oppose to harm make sense? Nature is by definition savage, why shouldn't you be, clearing the land of my competitors and impregnating their females would surely be a much better way of furthering my genes. It worked wonders for Genghis Khan. Sometimes I suspect that you're just a big softy at heart.

I guess bottom line is we're lucky enough to live in a society where it needn't impact us one way or another. It was only a couple of hundred years ago a Scottish student was hanged for saying it's all a load of nonsense made up by men. It's lucky noone would think of introducing blasphemy laws in this post enlightenment world isn't it. ... How exactly do you spell the sound of a tumbleweed. And HAL, that's what science says it, really, is it? I prefer the backs of elephants thing.

The key word is beliefs. I believe in god and I believe there is no god are fine. Live and let live. There is a god and there is no god implies some higher knowledge. Deists have yet to prove anything to me, deinialists(nice) likewise. Just pointing out the obvious. I find both latter positions arrogant, but that's just my belief.

The key word is beliefs. I believe in god and I believe there is no god are fine. Live and let live. There is a god and there is no god implies some higher knowledge. Deists have yet to prove anything to me, deinialists(nice) likewise. Just pointing out the obvious. I find both latter positions arrogant.

"is the corollary true - ie Claiming there IS a God is a)arrogant and b)pointless" being clever types in here innit, I assumed this to be rather obviously implicit in what I was saying. Mind you, arrogant perhaps, but hardly pointless when it comes to keeping the man down, the burqah, the cloistes gold encrusted up etc etc etc

Again with you Brendan. I don't know and really I don't much care, enough to worry about. I think the idea of a god with his rule book and points system is nherently absurd whether it's karma or time spent in purgatory. I do find any sort of absolute statement as disturbing and generally based in faith of some sort or other. Science merely says according to what we've tested this is what we know and for our purposes our conclusions work for us. I'm more inclined to put my faith in scientists hard work than theologians because it makes much more sense. But claiming there is no God is a)arrogant and b)pointless Mind you I know where Smg is coming from in the harm that religins cause, but then it's not all bad, art and architecture throughout the ages have been immesurably enriched by our search for the divine and the patronage of religious institutions (nasty things though they are on the whole)

Not good enough. I want a hypothesis, a trial and concrete conclusion before boldly claiming something is is impossible. How do the laws of physics explain thought or conciousness? Brendan has it, to the best of our knowledge ther is no evidence is all we can say.

Isn't an emphatic no every bit as bad as an emphatic yes? I'm also curious as to how Jeremys assertion that the existence of god, a metaphysical concept at best, is a physical impossibility? That's what my duodenum said to my appendix about me!!* apologies to annaj, bn5 et al, I have no idea whether or not they could chat.

Blimey declan, you could have warmed up with do clowns exist or something? I'm not so quick to decide Horatio. We ourselves are nothing but a bunch of interacting proteins, themselves just some clevely chained atoms, yet there is life and there is conciousness. I'm inclined to see the spark of divinity in so much about and around us, but have no idea what that means and it may be inherently unknowable. Do I for a second believe that that spark resides in any prophet or messiah more so than it does any of us? Nope. Do I believe any man made institution or book written by men has a greater knowledge of that divinity or can even speak on it's behalf, mostly to stop us having fun? Nope. Afterlife or reincarnation? I'm with Smg on that one. Our elements are reborn in other life. Even our stars die and are reborn as more complex stars and planets and new life, but do we or they go to heaven? *shrugs* I don't know.

Oh, without. Misleading title. Without: Internet browser. Business firefox, pleasure chrome or safari. With: any offce 2007 program, horrible if it ain't broke Ffs

And yes I get yours, but I think death due to terrible conditions is largely a thing of the past (well in Europe at any rate) thanks largely to worker representation resulting in protective legislation, that dreaded health & safety. Death due to oversight or incompetence is still way short of actual murder (not to say that corporate heads shouldn't occassionally be charged, some of the avoidable rail disasters spring to mind, but I digress). I've yet to see lobbying for street dealer job protection, leaving alone (err or not) the while issue of the muck they shove IN the product itself. But point taken.

You call them enterprising, but for all the 'evil' implied in corporation, young polish nannies don't get shot in the head in the crossfire as Carling fight a turf war with Timothy Taylor. Was it D'Angelo in the wire who wondered why they kept shooting each other, why they couldn't just sell it like a shop. As long as crime and violence hangs around the illegal drug industry like a bad smell, there's a case for putting in the hands of those who are at least more socially responsible. Oh and it's nicer in here Legal Eagle, the only flames in here are those in the open log fire by the brandy decanter. ;)

Mine was musical too. 11 years old, liked whatever my brother did, which was mostly early u2, simple minds, dire straits etc. Then my mate's aunt di....err went on a long holiday, and left...err behind, all her vinyl to my mate. He, myself and another friend spent much of that summer carefully examining g these amazing albums, each one treated with a genuine sense if reverence as we removed them from the sleeves and listened for the first time the likes of Deep Purple, Jethro Tull, Uriah Heap I'll finish this list soon

blimey, paragraphs! I don't think anyone was suggesting a woolly stream of anything BN5. For my part I was mewrely suggesting that there are patently a great deal of social problems. I don't want to hug a hoodie, but i do want crime to reduce. I think i was getting at the point that curing addiction is a good route to that, and if you have ?30k to spend in a year, then we can either spend it sending one oik to prison (actually including court costs, transportation etc etc it's alot more than that) for a year keeping him off the street, or we can fund one outreach/social worker and some facilities that may get five people off their addiction or off the street with it's consequent petty crime and/or violence that year. simples economy stupid, to quote a half clinton half meerkat.

Shouldn't that be I am not the chairperson You are not the chairperson The boy Lineker is not the chairperson