mockney piers

I'm all for helping Afghanistan normalise after forty years of suffering. It's not really our business but if the international community can cooperate and do good things that has to be a step in the right direction. Reconstruction is clearly hard, but surely the number one factor is to get the politics right. Far too many Afghans feel that they have a stooge gov't placed there by the US (not entirely unjustified) and it's weak and worst of all it's corrupt. Until the Afghans feel they have a genuine say in the running of the country and until a stable political process is there then nothing can be achieved. Worst of all it's a recruiting sargeant for the Taliban and this is driving the war. As you point out Santerme, they will come off militarily worse in any encounter, but every bomb dropped on a village, every civilian cUght in the crossfire will irreperably undermine the nation building. As far as I can see the war is by definition self defeating, and noone seems to have a clue about how to proceed with the political process. Vietnam was the same, it was a political faliure, a total defeat once they put a military junta in power and the tragedy is so many died for another 7 years before the inevitable became fact. I can't predict what will happen here, but if we genuinely care about the Afghans then settlement with the Taliban will happen and we may have to accept a form of government that is not exactly of our design. If it's about spheres of influence in energy rich central Asia then we have to accept indefinite military presence and the consequent casualties. I just wish there could be some honesty in the debate, like yourself and Brendan I dont buy the security line bullshit.

Weirdly I was perfectly sober, but 4 hours of Torchwood can do funny things to you. I suggest those embarking on iplayer do so in stints!!

Dishorse .... box

Has snorky hacked quids account? FYI Tony has never even been close to a ban, and the clique consensus seems to be happy wih that. For my part I find him tedious and he annoys me, mostly because he reminds me of my stubborn father. He lectures wihout listening. I don't know wether he's racist or not, I suspect not, but frankly I dont care, none of my business, but he does himself no favours by bringing race into everything, everything, and it's boring. He does this, not the wooly dulwicho-fascists.

Aren't you just smearing the forum quids, for it's resolute lack of banning? If the woolly pinko liberalism isn't fascist enough then smear it? Bloody middle class clique with its liberal values, I spit on you *chaatpoo*

Bejeeeeezus crystal clear. To quote a certain black man, shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit

I suppose you could, at a pinch, be our Chancellor of the Exchequer.

I'm tempted to rename this thread 'proof of collective unconscious discovered' cooool!!!

Great, now I've been earwormed..... F.I.R.E.I.N.C.A.I.R.O. F.I.R.E.I.N.C.A.I.R.O.

I've seen quite a fewof these fellas in the herts beds countryside over the years. I must sAY they are really cool. I'll obviously tut and say terrible vandalism, think. Of the (farming) chdren forr goodness sake!!!! But they are really cool!!

Tony causes something called octal bleeding, we just have to put up with it Louisiana. Mind you, you're one to talk, I've campaigned admin to have your 'quote this message' button removed ;-P

You referred to him az dead wood once, so back please.

I once knew an English bloke who charged obnoxious rates for shoddy services.

I have to say I've kind of l skipped cursorily through the last forty posts or so but and I say but, this country is far better than .. Oh bollocks, better than Spain.... Aaah fuck it, have to work tommoroe dammit. (tommoroe being the plural of all our days)

Yes, buffered if I've worked out how yet. iPod plays loads of different formats though, it's the conversion from DVD I couldn't work out. Mind you I didn't actually read any instructions just hoped my software would be easy to use. In short, I too am curious.

Great spell 6-2-11-1 or something (done from memory). Has anyone else noticed how quiet the forum has been over the last couple of days? Coincidence? I think not. I suspect my work productivity is suffering proportionately. *edited for misplaced hyphen*

Looking like englands session already. Hauritz's profligacy is crucifying the Aussies!!

Genetic research has shown that the majority of the inhabitants of the British isles are matrilineal descendants of the mesithic hunter gatherers who turned up after the ice age. The patrilineal picture is a little more complex but not muh more so. That of course means that Irish have every much as a rIght as you as genetically there's almost no difference between an Irishman a welsh a scot or an Englishman. So what's the plan, a test? And what happens when you discover you aren't but are actually the descendant of the huguenots who built Denmark hill, or the direct descendant of a Nubian soldier garrisoning London in 300BC. Nationhood is a very modern and esentially an entirely fabricated concept, so again is a red herrig, when this should be about politics and prioritisation of resources. Make it about social responsibilty if you like, but leave race and asylum and immigration out of it. If that's what you want just start a thread about immigrants saying 'despite my evidet predeliction for making friends among the first generation of immigrants, I think it's time fir it to stop' at least then we'll have an honest framework for this debate.

no superiority, simply ennui with the plethora of tactics you employ to keep debate focussed on your agenda. One of which is to ignore points made and use distraction to change the subject. As you made no recernce to anything I mentioned I feel no need to answer your questions or assertions. You might want to consider the extrememly long history of these isles and wonder why anyone turned up, those first anccestors following the herds, jumping the food queues of the indigenous non-human inhabitants. The Atlantic 'celts' from Spain who lived peacefully alongside the Mesolithic inhabitants, the roman auxilliaries from Germany who earned ciizenship and settled here, normans, Saxons, Huguenots and dutch, poles, Italians, when and where do you draw your lines aboutt who is and isn't indigenous? Genetic testing all round? You might not like what you find!! Tony.London Suburbs Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > mockney piers Wrote: > I'm not sure why you lot are engaging with a > man.... > > Perhaps you could get off your high, > "oh-so-superior" horse to tell me why: > > 1/ As Jeremy put it: "you do have to question why > so many refugees strive to get into the UK - many > of whom will travel the whole width of Europe to > get here" ?? > Why do these people by-pass so many Countries to > get to Britain when most have no natural > connection with this Nation, historically? > > 2/ If these Guys are "fleeing pesecution" from > their original countries why is it, almost > exclusively, single males we see trying to cross > the border from France in nearly every case? > > This means they are leaving their Women and > children to survive in these persecuted lands? > > What is your answer to these 2 questions please > MP?

I'm not sure why you lot are engaging with a man who has plenty of previous 'debating' a single narrow point over 20 pages, mostly with himself, who produces made-up or tainted statistics, but counters other arguments only with anecdotal evidence. Plus the debate is missing the point. As Bob says, it's a safety net or it's a right for everyone. If the former is the case then anyone who can afford rental has no entitlement, if you can't the DSS will provide housing benefit until such time as housing becomes available, clearly also the experience for the vast majority of immigrants. If you feel it's a right then blame thatcher who sold the housing stock, which lets face it the occupiers were quick to snap up, didn't hear much 'no, this is social housing lets jot deplete the stock and exacerbate the waiting lists'. Blame all subsequent governments who have massively under invested in social housing and attempted to put sticking plasters over the situation. Don't blame the councils who can only firefight and don't blame the immigrants for goodness sake.

I'm not so sure quids. I think it'll be good to have an area where the anything goes mentality is gone. That doesn't mean comment can't be light hearted or witty especially if it helps diffuse tension, but it must be at the least relevant. With the levels of traffic it will still depend on he user community to police it and report unwanted posts, but it needent be dull and worthy, but serve two purposes of allowing conversation without malicious disruption plus a place to have 'serious' perhaps local issues that aren't ED specific. I think it'll also allow good threads to remain visible rather than sink beneath the weight of word games and err lighthearted threads.

Debating chamber may scare people off. I reckon it should be a place for grown up discussion rather than specifically for formal debate though I hope much occurs. Any good suggestions, I always liked the drawing room, though that might be a bit stuffy too.

Other countries is a red herring. I was on bikes from a very young age but in an environment that was comparatively safe, cul de sacs connected by paths to little school. Cycle paths and relatively wide safe roads and fewer cars to big school, so have been biking regularly since about six. All in a nice safe, newish town. London is another kettle of fish, and due to the nature of its unplanned growth, huge levels of traffic with more buses and vans and higher incidence of nutterness than a nice suburban town, I wouldn't cycle regularly leave alone encourage my kids. But like quids and keef that's my right I won't impose that view on others. The onus is of course on all of us to be responsible road users as Louisiana suggests, I disagree that she and lenk should be vandalising whatever the provocation but understand their frustration. In my opinion th OP was not fulfilling her obligation, leaning out of the window, shouting and distracting or scaring the mother and kids. I do think the mum in question ought to rethink the wisdom of her actions and encourage learning those skills at a young age in a school playground or dulwich park, but I support her right to do so without aggressive judgmentalismm. Society is so risk averse these days. Over regulation, H&S or the daily mail, I don't know who Is toblame but OP's behaviour is pretty awful.

Ha ha Bob, welcome to the gang.

Blimey, first friendly is on Wednesday!! Then a bunch of home games on 14th, 21st and 27th. Can't make any of them sadly. Can do 1st august Against Sutton though.