Saila

yup - as suspected i'm most definitley a bad mother no cases in the UK is good enough for me

GCSE results will be worse than the year before for the first time ever house prices will fall (a positive imo) unemployment will rise more than expected but corporate UK (eps) will do better than expected... and bankers will get their bonuses interest rates will rise i'll get pregnant

i think bottled water is full of salt - so please dont' use bottled water unless you get that low sodium type of course the one bacteria that boiling water kills in formula is an *extremely* rare type of bacteria so rare that an infection caused by that bacteria is unheard of (at least i couldn't find any evidence of this happening) so the companies have to say that but i took the decision that they were just covering their backs and just used pre-boiled water in a seperate kettle getting up in the middle of the night to boil water and then wait for the bottle to cool just wasn't possible for me but i'm probably/definitely a bad mother edit to say: i boiled until 1 year old too

... just saying that boys *and* girls should play with slave-toys. Not just girls. Not having a go at slave toys as such.

also on this point.. i wonder how much impact giving girls so called 'slave-toys' makes a difference? i'm sure if we gave them to both boys and girls it's fine and i'm sure ppl do, but just girls may be a mistake... slave-toys was my mother's term for mini plastic hoovers, mini kitchens etc etc

omg - i thought that post was a joke! completely agree MM (and of course marcus) rant: it's nothing to do with being a bread winner etc - men aren't stepping up cos they just think it's woman's work... we can only change this by bringing up our sons in a way that stops them making these assumptions in later life anyway - i'm loving this thread too :)

supermarkets do plain coloured tights- my son wears white, red, purple and pink (i put socks over the top and trousers so no one even sees the colour. Plus i just don't think babies have gender anyway do they?

Man flu: 'You *never* give me any sympathy!!' 'Honey, you've had four colds in the past 3 months... Perhaps if you didn't go out all the time...' 'I'm really ill you should ask me how I am at least every 2 hours' *stares in disbelief*

cool - i was kinda trying to get it back on topic and originally did get the feeling it was slightly exclusive rather than inclusive, but happily i stand corrected.

anyway - i personally only felt it was important to comment on this thread to try and give some balance but i'm sorry if this then hyjacked the thread... anyway - it seems pretty resolved and hopefully the OP can get some responses re meeting up in a group just one thing - our nct group could not be more diverse. Working mums/SAHMs - Gina/baby-led - home birth/hospital but the group gets on amazingly and i dont' think anyone would want it any different. we all have our different approaches but they're one of the most unjudgemental groups of people i've ever met. We used to share tips and experiences and now we just enjoy a drink together and rarely talk about baby stuff anymore. it's great! if i hung out with just like-minded (or different approaches as we're all pretty like-minded) people, life wouldn't be so rich. anyway - it's 7:10pm... better get him to bed ;) edit to say - cross post - jinx!

Keef Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Okay, I'll put my head on the block. > > There are SOME aspects that I would call cruel, > yes. keef - i really think you need to be more careful with the use of language about these things. Personally i was very vulnerable and hormonal in the first few months post birth and comments like that can really hurt. Just concious that other equally vulnerable mums could be reading this thread.

ok - accusations of abuse and neglect aside ..... this is where i get really really confused i followed gina ford routine from very early on and never had to do 'controlled crying' if that's what you're talking about? In fact, there's no reference to CC in gina ford's book at all b/c you shouldn't have to do it if the baby doesn't get sleep associations (SA) that the mother can't cope with after a few months. SA = Feeding to sleep, rocking to sleep, dummy etc etc the sad truth is the *only* people i know who have done CC are those mums who couldn't cope any more as the baby had developed sleep assocaitions and the mum was at the end of her tether. there are so many threads about sleep problems due to SA and families in desperate need of help. They often have to embark on a really tough session of CC.... and i feel really sorry for them as it sounds bloody tough! There were two mums in my nct group and i know of many personal friends who have resorted to CC, often when the baby's 6months or older. These mums had not done any routine, they'd taken advice to follow the baby's signals and it ended up not working out for them, sadly. However, surely the worst thing to do is accuse them of child abuse too? Surely these mums need support and help? If you've sat with a mother who's not slept for 6months you'd see how desperate it can get *every* time i speak with a mum in the above situation (and this has been many many times) i just count my blessings also, all these mums say next time round they'd do things very differently... it's all up to the individual mum, they should make their own decisions and i dont' think we or anyone, can pass judgement on other people's parenting styles.

Quote: Saffron/Keef I would still personally consider AP to be the opposite end of the spectrum from 'baby training' (eg Ford or Ferber) *as a parenting style* b/c abuse and neglect are not parenting styles, IMHO. i've just reread this and TBH i'm not sure whether i've read it properly... are you saying those mums that follow a gina ford routine are 'abusing and neglecting' their children?

i agree re the labelling thing i co-slept for months *and* followed the gina ford routine (which worked really well for us and i've since found out isn't 'gina ford' but just a natural routine that babies fall into anyway...) what does that make me? Gina Fraud? would i have been welcome to this group as a new mum?

my asda order's just been cancelled - not sure if it will then come another day or if it's just plain cancelled? i guess the latter

Anyone know if buses from elephant and walworth/old kent road are all ok? Is walking there and hopping on a bus an option?

this opens up a whole debate - my lecturer at uni researched into this area (Robin Baker) he wrote a book called 'sperm wars' and studied sperms which had limited or zero DNA inside and appeared to recognize, surround and attack 'foreign' sperm. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sperm-Wars-Robin-Baker/dp/0330390775 also, woman subconsciously thinned the mucus lining of the cervix when they were being unfaithful! so they were much more likely to get pregnant if sleeping with an irregular partner than with their husband... all fascinating stuff and they did a double horizon on it in the 90s oh - and men with large testicles are statistically more likely to be unfaithful than small ones and woman subconsciously wear more revealing clothes during ovulation and cover up during their period.... all hypotheses of his edit to say - men are also many fold times more fertile if their partner has been away, say on business trip or away with friends for the w/e. So perhaps go away and say you're staying with a male friend - maybe that'll help? and the other fact i was amazed to hear but is pretty well known is that a third of all infertility is down to the man, another third is woman and the final third is 'unknown cause'. I always thought it was much more reltated to woman... but it's not

I found taking my temp each day and recording it worked a treat. There's lots of chats u can't print off online Basically ur body temp goes up a whole degree on the day of ovulation (if my memory serves) and lots of ppl have diff ov days eg a day btw day 10- day 18? Mine's day 14 but that means nothing as u are u Buy a thermometer from boots (less than a tenner) that's all u need Good luck! Ps if u want a boy, then try on the day of ovulation, if u want a girl then try before / after There's a theory (no more than a theory mind!) That means the above method may work...

Not sure I'd want money unless it was to refund lost funds of mine I have only really complained about unfair behaviour Eg I've comlained numerous times about black cabs refusing to take me home despite their monopoly and requirement to take jobs if their lights on and the job is not too far away. In this case I want the driver to get a strike by their name or worse I recently complained about sexist comments being made to me by an AA man. In that complaint I noted that all my previous experiences had been positive. They have given me a written and verbal apology. That's all I want. Money wouldn't do anything... So I guess it depends on u and/or the nature of the compaint .... I received a ?10 cheque after I complained to tesco when I found a boiled cricket in my spinach, but really just the cost of the purchase would have sufficed

I think asset management is a perfect job for a mum. Hours are very friendly (9-5pm) You can work from home if needs be and just conference call in Most can afford a nanny and a cleaner You can catch up once the kids are asleep (ie do work as and when it works for u) The only slightly difficult bit is business travel but if u have access to skype, a nanny and a hands on dad, it's all doable I think nicola had it good, but then she had a very sick child didn't she? Now that sounds very tough I think she may have lost a child and then she split up with her partner? So in those repects she had it very tough

I would love to speak with her! But ironically just don't have time - I'm away with work this wk... I would ask her two things, First, why she thinks being an Ambitious Mother is still an oxymoron (ambitious in terms of career) Second, how in truth the more successful u are, isn't it easier? As this prob means you can dictate your hours and when those hours are plus u can pay for staff to clean, cook and nanny!

I'm really moved by this song. i heard a story once, about a woman who'd just burried her mother a week earlier. Her mum helped out with babysitting and cared for their son (Daniel) whilst she was out at work. Clearing out her son's bedroom she randomly pressed play on his bright, yellow tape recorder and out came her mother's voice singing Danny Boy... gently to her son. really sad - i cried loads. it was a chosen inheritance track on radio 4 for the above reason

my son wears tights i double up with socks on top and trousers and he's lovely and snug i have zero problem with it it's bloody cold !

thanks mook - really helpful i hope i've not screwed up and bought normal shoes too early...

so.. what's the difference btw cruisers and normal shoes? i went to clarks today and bought a pair :) here's what happened feet measured - size 4 width G and i bought a pair the size up too, for a few month's time (working-mum-time-saving-thought) I didn't try them on (stupidly) cos it's a battle getting him changed let alone trying on new shoes. Got home - couldn't get them on his feet ... grr are cruisers different? are they softer? easier to put on?