Saila

> Until then there are only closed minds and drugs with side-effects and my question was not answered about the thousands of people that suffer and die from these horrendous side-effects from allopathic medicine. A drug without side effects is not a drug it's about weighing up the risks versus the benefits e.g. Thalidomide an infamous drug, initially indicated for morning sickness and often discussed due to the catastrophic effects it had on unborn children Today this drug is used to treat Multiple Myeloma where the benefits of this treatment far outwiegh the risks The drug increases overall survival in these cancer patients - but you wouldn't take it for morning sickness ...

Narnia Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > How/who will you treat your depression Saila? just reading this cheers me up :)

>"I'm genuinely troubled by the lack of scepticism on this forum about complementary or alternative therapies..." I honestly think most people view alternative therapies, and other unproven approaches to medicine, as so ridiculous they don't bother posting about it It's depressing, but i can only put it down to a lack of a proper scientific education in our schools... It's amazing how many people don't know: What a compound is What natural is and what synthetic is What placebo effect is What 'toxins' are That natural doesn't mean it's safe ... This reminds me of a funny thread where someone trying to sell some sort of healing-lamps on LL (for ?17.50 a pop!) talked about neutrons having negative charge which will offset *bad* positive charge or something like this - complete rubbish. Thankfully one of his many bizarre 'facts' was quoted in the R&A post cos he swiftly went in and edited out his comment - funny!!!! Just poor education and lashings of sincerity = a big pile of BS. Neutrons are NEUTRAL and protons aren't zooming around the air for us to dodge ! http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?30,416376,423939#msg-423939

Broken a bone Eaten a mcdonald's burger Alton Towers Thought Brad Pitt was fit

lofty23 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Saila Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > > > we'll have to get the whole place boarded up so > > that we can then fix grills and cages etc to > stop > > them getting access again > > > > > That's what she said, ok I missed the bit about a > builder. hello lofty The squatters must have moved in only a few weeks ago as they weren't there when my parents last viewed the flat before buying Secondly, we were advised by the bailiff company (amongst others) to board up the flat and put grills up *as soon as possible* after we finally get access i.e. after the final court order has been granted and they have been removed. This is to prevent them coming back that night and the whole thing starting all over again not sure what we've done / are doing wrong in your eyes?

Update: on ianr's advice My brother and mother (dad's ill) went to lambeth county court and filled out all the forms for an IPO. they should be getting the IPO sometime soon (next 2 weeks?). They'll then get someone to go round and post this on the windows will tell you what happens afterwards i'm going to give the forum updates so that if this happens again to anyone they don't have to learn the ins and outs but can hopefully just read this and see the reality in terms steps needed and times etc

Thanks very much for your help ianr. Forwarding all this onto my family now. ianr Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > A PIO would not need an order, just a signed > statement as specified in s.12A; plus perhaps, to > be on the safe side and ensure the squatters and > police should reasonably be satisfied that your > claim is true (s.6.1.(A)), other documentation > proving title. Cf the reference to a s.12A > statement even in the Advisory Service for > Squatters boiler-plate "Legal Warning". > http://www.squatter.org.uk/index.php?option=com_co > ntent&task=view&id=13&Itemid=31 And PIOs are, as > I read it, specifically excluded from the s.6 > offence of using violence to gain entry. > > If seeking a possession order, I think I'd do the > form-filling, service and representation myself > rather than pay ?2.5k.

Yes - that's the route we're going down we had a quote of ?1k from bailiffs (if they refuse to leave after the inital IPO) and a quote of ?2.5k for the solicitors fees (we are ringing around for better quotes as this seems ridiculous to us) still all work in progress and as we're not experts in this field it just takes longer to get through things i'm sure if we get squatters again we'd be much quicker but this is the first time for us so it's stressful and slow after the IPO - if they haven't left, i think they then get a final notice? i'm not up to speed with the next stage as our whole family's down with a that winter vomiting bug, so i'm a bit behind...

Update: We?ve had a quote of 'at least' ?3000 for legal fees and bailiff fees and haven?t really got much further than two weeks ago. As someone who?s going through this now with our own property (which was only left vacant for 3 weeks maximum cos my parents viewed an empty property just prior to buying it) it?s frustrating to have the police inside the flat saying to the squatters ?i?ve seen the state of this flat and i will act as a witness to prove you?ve trashed it, if you trash it? This just means the police have no power of discretion. They know it?s our flat and we have a T1 form showing we?ve paid for the flat etc etc Lots of bureaucracy means that we?ll have to fork out ?3k and it will take months to get the flat back the worst bit about all of this is my dad's not sleeping and is so stressed out he's not making sense with his sentences :( he's all over the place

All three of us are suffering with it now. Here's what we had 12 hrs of being sick every hour 12 hrs of nausea and occasional sickness Incubation period of 1.5 days post exposure to infected person I spent the whole night up with our son (the dad was too poorly himself to hlep) I then went into work the next day exhausted but feeling fine ... Just had an email from my colleague and he's just come down with it too This is highly highly contagious and pretty miserable Nothing u can do except sip water :(

gwod Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Us too - It was expensive but it's easy to use and > has completely stopped unwanted interlopers. I > think it makes my namby pamby cats more confident > too as they seem to know they've got a really safe > place to go if the territorial battles in the > garden get too much for them. :) One of my cats reminds me of yours. When our other cat is outside protecting his territory from a wandering neighbour cat, he flies thru the cat flap, at 100mph, and hides under the kitchen table, hyperventillating...

:) lovely is the trick to stay in london do you think? if we were in the country, they'd rush to london and the visits would be harder to arrange keef - do your parents live in ED? were you brought up here?

I have been working 4 days a week which means i see my son more than 50% of his 'awake time' I'm really happy with this arrangement as is my son - he hyperventilates with excitement when we get to our nannyshare - and i feel pretty similar about my job however, i'm going to be working 5 days once he reaches the 1 yr old milestone and i'm now rationally assessing my feelings about this i like the 4 day week thing but have definitely had flashes of mum-guilt about not being with him ALL the time. Equally i get mum-guilt at work about not being at work ALL the time I see my parents 2x a day because i drive to their house, park and hop on a bus. This involves drinking tea in the morning and a often a glass of wine at night. I know everything they're up to and vice versa. I kinda assume that this is normal and that i have a fun filled life ahead of me, with my son and future children. However, is my relationship with my parents a one off? Should i be 'making the most of my son' whilst they're around / before they fly the nest etc? who hangs out with their parents?

i can't help think we're going off course here? it can't be true that there's one law for immigrants and another for everyone else?

i absolutely understand your point. But if it's such a basic human right that's been wronged then why should you have to explore other avenues? surely our justice system is such that we don't need to resort to this? it's a basic right? surely? louisiana Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Saila Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I'm not a legal-minded person but my own > rational > > assessment of my situation is that someone's > > living in a flat that they don't own or belong > in. > > the fact that they are illegal immigrants (or > not) > > in my mind should be irrelevant? > > > > it's a separate issue, but i'm grateful for > your > > > > Sure, it's a separate issue, and you need to go > through due process for evicting squatters, but if > they are basically taking the piss and making > things worse than they need be, I would be tempted > to pursue, simultaneously, other avenues > available. If someone plays dirty, I tend to have > the attitude 'all deals are off'. edit to say - i can't spell and i'm too tired to do it myself. - sorry

ultimately - however unjust or unfair something is, there are procedures you must follow. However tiresome those procedures are, you must respect them and abide by them. It's exhausting, but if you have done no wrong, you will be fine i'm shattered night x

I'm not a legal-minded person but my own rational assessment of my situation is that someone's living in a flat that they don't own or belong in. the fact that they are illegal immigrants (or not) in my mind should be irrelevant? it's a separate issue, but i'm grateful for your thoughts surely - it's simple - illegal immigrant or not - if you sneak into someone's house when they're out you surely can't claim it to be your own? louisiana Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Why not contact UKBA? > http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/contact/contacts > page/191679/ > After all, there must be a strong suspicion that > they are not entitled to be here, or that if they > are entitled that they might have conditions > attached to their stay that they might be in > breach of (e.g. they are under a student visa but > they are not studying). EDIT TO SAY: that's what they did - they broke into our flat and claimed it as their OWN. The police were called and they said it 'was a civil issue' i.e. nout they can do This could happen to any of you reading now. nothing to do with race/politics - Just basic living. edit 2x for poor spelling

i'm finding myself spending all my time on google, searching and researching all the ins and outs about my parent's rights over their property

update when we knocked on the door saying 'what are you doing in our flat - this is OUR flat' they called the police and accused us of threatening behaviour... omfg thankfully the police were lovely and actually helped us :) they went in and said to the chilean guy - 'you can't trash the place now as i've seen it in this condition - anything trashed and we know it was you' you have to be so proactive in these situations.... to get your OWN house back :( what struck me though is - if the police can sit in OUR flat and have conversations like that ... surely they can say this isn't your home? anyway - all we can do is fill out the right forms and wait... on hugenot's advice.

we had no idea about the locksmith thing... in fact we were advised that if we can get in then we had the flat back jeezus - heart lept again fingers xed this works out

DJKillaQueen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > That's awful Saila. Huguenot has given you exactly > the right advice. he absolutely has and i'm very grateful indeed

our builder (barry) who was meant to start work on monday, has offered to sleep there and protect the place once this is all over. He's pretty tough and will have a direct line to the police... welovehim what can we do if grates don't work? is there a better alternative? or do we just hope they go away?

i'll give you a quick run down of what's happened so far; my parents managed to get in with a locksmith and changed the locks on tuesday my brother then went round today and they have managed to get back in and change them again :( they really seem to know what they're doing they are a gang of chileans - pretty well built guys you wouldn't wanna mess with. So i'm not sure the tough approach is the right approach. We're going to get that firm in that hugenot suggested (just got a quote from them, will cost at least ?1000 all in) We'll start the ball rolling on monday. fingers crossed it wont take long we'll have to get the whole place boarded up so that we can then fix grills and cages etc to stop them getting access again urgh - i have that sick feeling you get when something's gone very wrong also - i rang round electricity and gas companies to see if we can cut off their supplies but we're not allowed to. It's illegal and against their rights. Great - so we have a nice fat bill to pay when we finally get access....

thanks very much for htis do you know what the min time is that this'll get sorted? weeks/months? days?

not sure - as we don't know when the previous owners moved out this is all very new news for us but we're going to speak with teh neighbour our locksmith spoke to her and she's an elderly lady who was very upset by it all, saying they were a bad bunch god this is really stressful