Saila

there's a great thread on 'what to take to hospital' on here somewhere I found that really useful (especially things like flipflops for communal bathrooms and a fan for hot wards) there's also loads of threads on c-sections and how people have found them no problem at all (my sister's had three now and left hospital 2 days after her last one) a C-section is the safest option for you and your breech baby good luck EDIT here's one but not the long one i was thinking of ... just looking for you now http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?29,464777,465049#msg-465049 some other helpful links... tip - just do a search for flip flops! :) http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?29,439587,439884#msg-439884 http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?29,355183,355209#msg-355209 x

don't take up smoking? *runs for cover*

>:D< ..... i have six months to live, i'll do ten things i've never done before 1) sleep with two people at once B) 2) do a bungee jump 3) go to an all night rave 4) run the marathon ... 10) throw some litter for the very first time! rock AND roll

I used to smoke (heavily) and every time i was reminded about how bad it was it just made me want another one... Smoking is as addictive as heroin. Ask any smoker whether they would rather not smoke and they'd mostly reply YES Shouting at someone who clearly knows what she's doing is wrong will (IMO) just make her light up again If you want to start a campaign about something you have to go about it the right way, or no one will listen. So i'd offer to work as an educational midwife and stay well out of publically humiliating someone with a hardcore addiction.

... you refresh the page and there are no new red 'new's... the dark side of maternity leave

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23432827-girl-13-knifed-in-playground.do

'leafy villagey feel of peckham rye' was a direct quote from last week's location location location

'leafy villagey' peckham rye doesn't sell papers / tv shows

EXACTLY the same thing happened to me... and at work too lived together for years, in our 30s & just bought family sized house etc SHOCK-HORROR we decided to start a family and skip the wedding bit (saving money and time) I went into our semi-annual board mtg. None of the greying old board members said congrats and then in the tea break one of them cornered me and sternly said, 'Yes.. i heard about your news. A baby's a big commitment you know' 'Who's going to look after it?' My lovely (female) boss interjected and said, 'There is such a thing as childcare' I sloped off and cried in the loos :(

conclusion: if you're worried you're doing things wrong, you probably are and if you're one of the lucky few who feels confident in their approach to parenting, you're doing it wrong too *shoots self*

at least your pregnant... My dad keeps saying 'having another one already are you?!' ...can't get rid of the mum-bump :(

I think it has a dash in the middle If you go to the link in a previous post you can see she/he spells it prada-nic Shall we let this thread naturally melt away? It's really tragic and heartbreakingly sad ... mixed with misunderstanding / usual edf chat Hope that makes sense Night

mum's and lyrics... i remember my mum thought 'i like to move it, move it' was 'i like to mortgage, mortgage' and 'dont' call me daughter' (pearl jam) was 'don't call me donald' (?) to be fair it does sound like those phrases

If it was my post ltec i really wouldn't be upset at all if you said you had a problem with it? All i did was copy and paste from wikipedia who got the stats from WomanStats.org Not sure what the issue is there.... agree - after reading that i'm definitely paranoid

totally agree and they prepared me in the event that i didn't get an epidural (and many others i imagine, willingly or not willingly) i assumed i would as i decided before i went into labour i wanted decent pain relief people don't tell you that getting an epidural is a battle in itself (too early, too late, no doctor available etc etc) but you're right, he could have had a big nasty mark. my point was in my nct class the insinuation (meant or not) was that an epidural would lead to ventouse, when it happens all the time with or without epidurals

i dont' think you're being middle-aged. Just one of those things mums go through i remember, really clearly, my mum cringing at me singing 'like a virgin' VERY loudly when i was about 7 yrs I had no idea what it meant

if it's serious then you should perhaps ask admin to remove the post

you can pm the person perhaps? encourage them to retract the statement? if you feel so strongly about it then they wont be upset by your pm

I echo the past two posts. Plus i think it's often at least two opinions being put forward and i dont' feel like it's ever overly one way or the other.. and if it is, someone always steps in to rebalance it Everyone knows it's an individual's opinion. If a random person told you something in a pub one night you wouldn't rush out the next day and follow them word for word? A good debate is fun afer all So now that you're reassured... loosen up a bit and tell us what's really on your mind? details please :))

I really enjoyed my nct class and still regularly meet up with the others 5 months after we had our babies However, I also felt there was a 'natural birth' bias especially as the whole topic of pain relief was left to the last half an hour on the second full on day.... so everyone was tired at that point. During that time we were shown horrid photos of interventions marks caused by ventouse etc My baby was born with ventouse help and he didn't have a mark like that at all... so that was slight scare mongering i feel. Also the usual c-sections are AWFUL path... I went into hospital with every intention of getting an epidural. It so happens that the midwives didn't believe how far gone i was and how much pain i was in and so i never got my epidural. Instead my partner was sent home and i had to beg for him to be allowed back, only for him to find me pushing on my own on the floor of the antenatal ward, by my bed... Anyway - had i got the epidural maybe it would have slowed everything down a little and i would not have required the ventouse and episiotomy that i did get in the end because the baby was stressed out (not surprised as i was pretty stressed out too). But he came out safely and that's all i care about, thanks to the doctor that swooped in and sorted everything out grumble over - anyway the classes were really useful to me as i ended up having that birth she described (unfortunatley on my own in the loo of the antenatal ward) so i did all the breathing things she said which helped. she was also very pretty and that helped with the men's concentration spans ;-) on a final note, the men met for drinks after all the births and all agreed that the nct classes were 'unrealistic' (i'm not going to repeat what they really said) anyway i'd really recommend it - just go in with a pinch of salt and do your own reading around the birth. oh and i should say that I found the post birth advice really helpful too so again it depends who you go with

a common problem we have.... :)

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i agree it is completely the decision of the mum.. don't get me wrong. I just wanted to give them a mention at least. They derserve a consultation especially when it gets complicated edit: to be more specific, i've not heard scare stories about c-sections themselves but the recovery time is often stated as 'horrendous' when actually it depends completely e..g my sister has had both vaginal and c-section and found the recovery for her natural birth far worse. So i was getting at that really. The procedure itself is recognised as being the safer option versus natural birth with a known complication such as breech. Also c-sections have been around for centuries, even as far back as Egyptian times. But my god i'd fight to have a natural birth over a c-sectoin in those days! Pain relief too has been around for donkeys years - it's not a new phenomenon. Queen Victoria insisted on chloroform (sp) during childbirth. Since the 1970s pain relief has been diluted down a great deal from being completely knocked out to what we now know as the epidural. So although epidural use has gone up in the past 30-40 years pain relief's been around since it was discovered. For the record - i had a birth in hospital, without an epidural (not by choice as i wanted one) during the 'pushing stage' he was facing the wrong way and was stressed out and his heart rate was dropping The midwife and dr, said this baby has to get out ASAP and i asked what was safer, a c-section or natural birth The doctor said, "at this stage it's safer to get the baby out vaginally". So we went down that route and I completely trusted what he said and we got him out but with the use of ventouse and episiotomy! and he's healthy and fine - yay! :)

In our situation the dad was like that too i.e. 'your body, your choice' however if it was a breech baby i think he'd need a great deal of convincing as to why i'd gone against medical advice at the risk of his son or daughter it'd be great if some dad's commented about whether they'd be up for it too?

LEF i think you've summed things up really well the other elephant in the room is another person's opinion... the Dad's we never discuss their opinion when in reality 3 people go into that delivery room and 3 go out (baby, mum and dad) not just mum