Actually H, I agree with Rubsley's statement, albeit his use of the word God would be contentious for some. Particularly if you don't believe there is a God. To say he couldn't be bothered to work it out on his own implies that you think you have. Yet again on this thread people, in this case you H, associate God with religion. You should get your act together lad. God is a convenient word to describe an experience but as it means so many things to so many people it's just not a good word to use anymore to try an explain an 'experience'. Anyway, back to work lads. Tell me if reach a conclusion.