new mother

We never co slept BUT the reason I'm posting is that when the ch were little, I had a strong instinct to d it. I would wake in the night assuming the baby was in the bed and terribly worried about WHERE??? exactly. SO, I take from this that it would have been totally natural and would ahve felt "right" for me to have done it.

With us, I have been very surprised - you just can't buck biology. That's what it amounts to. It amazes me how strong my maternal instincts are, in comparison to what I thought was a strong ambition to work and do well. It amazes me how confident I am in my (untaught an inexperienced) parenting. It amazes me how I feel finally like a round peg in a round hole. THis is what I am programmed for. BUT My brain says - when the ch are both at school/univeristy. which happens faster than you think, what are you going to do. I must work now to stay in the labour market and to have something to do when they no longer need me - in London, this process starts at about age 7(!). So, I will do an external job to earn money to pay someone to enjoy the best years of my children's lives. Interesting thread, thanks for raising the issue.

Scribe, hilarious post. O tempora o mores indeed Actually, as I came down our stairs,I slipped slightly and reached for the banister, finding a very worn patch that you wouldn't normally need to hold on to. So, lots of people have slipped before?!

Unfortunately, as you point out Konmester, emergency sections are completely different from planned ones. Sorry to hear Knomester :-(((( but look at it this way - both you and your baby are well and, if you had been left to labour or had lived in a different century, that might not have been the case. Thank goodness for medical technology that can get these babies out quickly when it is required.

Not following the query - the child is asking to go back, you can't see any signs of illness over a cold and she is able to enjoy dressing up etc. How do you get time off for this? maybe you are self employed? I'm missing something here...

Reneet, I'm so sorry you have so much on your plate. Poor you. Could you even dial in food once a week? Would that help that one night? Sorry you are doing so much....You sound like a typical conscientious mother and colleague who has a lot on and keeps slogging away. Don't hesitate to go to your gp adn ask to be signed off through exhaustion fora few days if that is what you need to recharge the batteries. You don't have the sleep bank that you started with, with numero uno. Ruth, Sorry about your son's terrifying dash to Kings etc. Really what you DO NOT need. xx

What would a neutral description of the Steiner philosophy be? (serious question - I am intrigued by the schools but have not met anyone who attends/attended.)

Kitty, the Wandsworth toastrack houses come in at around 2.95 mm pounds so that was a nice thing for the agent to have said! It is amazing how the ED Forum draws in people from all over, incidentally. There is a woman from CAnada who posts regularly and many girls from Surrey who used to live in ED and cannot kick the habit!

What an amazing post Helen and thank you so much for taking the time to set it all out. THere will be plenty for lots of us to learn from your experience. We would love to go when the girls are slightly older but I am nervous of the 5 sets of equipment issue you described. Had not considered Andorra but will certainly look into it now. THank you!

"while I agree, a small minority are fairly irritating in their I'm-the-best-mother-in-the-world attitude to natural births, breastfeeding kids in school uniforms and only feeding their children tofu, " Hilarious quote from pr darling. Yuck - Tofu is horrible, IMO! LEDF, I don't mind explaining at all and thank you for the tactful way you phrased the query. I had an elective for the following reaons: 1. Labour is totally unpredictable, can change very quickly from normal to disaster scenarios and even those who have uneventful pgcies and are extremely fit are not guaranteed straightforward deliveries. (and I wasn't extremely fit!) 2. Because fewer and fewer drs are skilled in eg forceps or ventouse these days, I was particularly nervous of such a delivery. |From my reading, anyone my age, with a first delivery (late 30s first time round) had a 25pc chance of such intervention. COnfirmed by cons.) 3. as I was old to be having a first baby, I already knew a lot of girls who had a family and, almost without exception, those who had gone privately - guaranteed epidural when they wanted it - or had had an organised section - as I did - had a "better birth outcome". THose who had tried a pv delivery on the NHS in London - and this is also an important distinction as provincial hospitals seem to be less stretched and more supportive - had had (a) the pain, (b) often stitches, then really disgusting infections © pelvic problems afterwards (d)often an emergency section thereafter. Furthermore, I didn't see the point of labouring for hours or even days and having a section at the end of it. 4. My view of medical personnel on the whole - and please note that I am, of course, generalising - is that the excellent nurses of a previous generation, who I would have trusted implicitly, have moved on to being Drs themselves in this generation. Draw your conclusions from that. I have faith that midwives "mean well" and will be ok 9 times out of 10 but in the remaining one case, I don't want to put my trust in the judgement of someone who just "means well". I want someone sharp, on the ball and experienced. THat package of skills is not, in my observation, held by every midwife. 5. I firmly believe that women should not suffer pain when giving birth. (If men gave birth, total block pain relief that allowed labour to progress would soon be a national priority.) THose who tell me proudly about "no pain relief" are pretty well stuck in another century, in my view, and contribute to the overall problem. Why should women suffer? It isn't right. 6. Anecdotally, too many friends have children with problems post natural births one way or another. Cf none post elective sections, (I think anyway). 7. My observation - and it is just that - is that the better informed medical people and female drs tend to have sections. Put it this way, of my female dr friends, none has given birth pv. On the other hand, there were downsides to the section ranging from minimal to massive (guaranteed surgery for starters!): 1. Frightful dump of a ward with noise and buzz 24/7 - but it was only for 2 days and the proximity to theatre reassured me so it wasn't a problem for me. 2. Scar - I have a faded scar about 12cm across - I just looked! At its most vivid, I wasn't worried about it at all so, again, not an issue. (I only mention it as someone did on another thread as being an issue for her.) 3. Flabby tummy - didn't occur to me that this might happen and it didn't so that was fine. 4. Not being normal strength for weeks, not holding the baby etc - no-one I knew with a elective had these issues. Everyone was driving, moving normally and carrying the baby early on. The oft quoted six weeks did not seem to apply. 4. MRSA - looked at stats and was reassured 5. Spinal or epidural - read into in great detail why they were planning spinal. Met cons to discuss my main concern (are they trying to cut NHS costs by doing second grade spinals?!) Reassured that spinal was fine for vast majority of cases. Not concerned about problems siting it owing to experience of anaesthetist in theatre. (again better level of expertise with electve than overnight emergency, unfairly really as the emergencey case needs it more, arguably.) 6. Bp dropping in theatre as a direct result of spinals - happens to everyone. AS I have v low bp anyway, I was worried. Mentioned to cons anaesthetist who raised it with me on the day and pre-empted me. (no doubt sick of the point) 7. Cutting into the abdomen and having surgery - ok, the real point. I was reassured as, technically, it is a very easy operation. However, you wld have to be totally crazy to go looking for major surgery prima facie. For me, the likelihood of having other cuts, possibly an emergency section anyway and a panic to get out an oxygen starved baby overrode my desire to avoid surgery. THis way the risks were known adn could be covered in advance. Happy to answer pms on this if anyone is contemplating it. I've tried to be balanced and hope anyone reading this can see that. Good luck to anyone having a lovely scrumptious baby. I wish I were having more!

All, there is vast difference between an elective and an emergencey section, bear that in mind. Molly, I wonder if you know anyone who has had an elective recently? Modern anaesthetic etc is very good. I was doing normal things on day 2, counting the big day as day zero. I still have a scar, it is true but it is seen by few people and doesn't bother me at all. I am not sure if my muscles have knitted - can muscles "knit"?? - or something but, each time, my stomach was concave before pgcy and automatically regained its tone easily. So, in terms of post birth experinces, mine could not have been better. THe only thing I would say is that I did far too much early on. I was running up and down stairs on day 2 each time with piles of washing, cartons of orange juice etc and I think, on reflection, that level of activity was illadvised.

I'd stick where the secondary schools are acceptable to you. OTOH, I personally hate the waste of energy and stamp duty that is moving! Some people like moving house though...

I stand by my belief that, while you may want to try a VBAC, you need to be in a hospital for it. Sorry, snowboarder, for alarmist language but I think that in this case the alarm needs to be sounded. Again, a rupture is a small risk (though greater than people think), but why take the risk of having one in a home birth situation? I think it is irresponsible (again, sorry if I am direct about it). (From Forgetful's post above) Thank Goodness someone is prepared to say the truth. It is crazy to consider increasing the risks associated with giving birth. Please please ladies, don't be taken in by lovely sounding stories of being at home with a cup of tea. Birth is brutal. We'd all prefer to be at home, of course. No-one wants to be stuck in a smelly hospital surrounded by strangers and scary medical equipment. You are closer to theatre though if anytyhing goes wrong, which it OFTEN does. Please please realise this. Birth is not coughing and having a newborn next to you for most women. You and your unborn baby MUST be near emegerencey care, JUST IN CASE. We all pray it isn't necessary, but it might be, and that possibility, however slight, should make mothers choose hospital.

New info - Oakfield has a new head in the shape of Jane Stevens. (I know of her from friends with children at her previous school, Putney High.) Their view was that they were sorry to see her go, she was well regarded by the parents at PHS, is very committed and will do well for the new place. To be honest, I would not previously have considered Oakfield but will now be keeping an eye on its progress and would not be surprised to see the pupils doing extremely well under her. JAGS could do with some competition round here anyway...

Flutterby, Congrats, how exciting! New babies sleep a lot, of course just not always when you want them to. We decided to get mega help in the house instead. Our reasoning was that I would not accept the views of a young woman maternity nurse and I would feel compelled to HELP an old one to sleep and do her job so what was the point. (More fool me!) We agreed that we would reserve the right to get someone in later on if we were tired but we didn't need to as they both slept through around 7 or 8 weeks. I had a mega burst of energy - god it was wonderful and I realised how lucky people with high natural levels of energy are in life - for 3 months but it tailed off slowly over that period. It meant that I got lots of stupid jobs done that I had been putting off for ages. Crazy with new babies but I felt able to. However, this energy thing is not guaranteed from talking around so, incase not, get the jobs done now. You are about to embark on the most wonderful few months of your life. I'd love to be at that stage again. Enjoy it. :-))))

LEDF, "Childbirth is meant to hurt." Errr...how about broken legs? Are they meant to hurt? Don't we get pain relief, correctly, to such patients asap??? Childbirth nowadays hurts much more than ever before because the pelvis cannot evolve to be large enough to walk and to accommodate big well nourished Western babies' heads. I must say I'm shocked by your comment. Women should support each other and not accept being the bottom of the list in terms of allocation of resources if failure to provide pain relief, as per your previous comment. I fear there is also a contingent who do believe, mediaevally, that "childbirth is meant to hurt".

Thank you very much. What a wonderfully fun trip it all sounds, especially the bungalow. I will definitely look into this.Much more satisfying to put it together yourself as well. Have a brilliant time. May is quite soon now.

Thank you very much. What a wonderfully fun trip it all sounds, especially the bungalow. I will definitely look into this.Much more satisfying to put it together yourself as well. Have a brilliant time. May is quite soon now.

Interesting programme. re pain relief, I don't know any one of my friends on the NHS who got her epidural when she asked for it. Everyone I know was left to suffer in agony, whic I find unacceptable in the modern world. Hence my two electives.

I had the best cleaner in the world a few years ago at 10/hour direct to her. It was expensive but she was totally efficient so I viewed it as money well spent. Unfort, I moved across London and lost her. We now have agency girls who I have had to train completely - 8.50 an hour. I wldn't pay more for their work as they are very slow indeed and so end up being paid much more than a good cleaner at a tenner an hour would be. I'd be quite happy with 10/hour - and I give what I consider good bonuses at Christmas etc (100 pounds - is that good?)if she is efficient. Not otherwise.

hi, we are two adults and two ch looking for two weeks at an all inclusive, beach club style sunny holiday in July or August. So far, everything I've seen - eg in Turkey - is around 4000 pounds which I consider very expensive. OTOH, having had a cheap trip to Egypt last year, am I just unaware of how much things really cost these days?! Maybe the 4000 option is just what people are preapred to pay? Yikes.... THanks for any better ideas!

what times are your existing ceramics cafe classes on mondays, please Kim? thanks

There is a vaccine these days but not available on the NHS, I don't think. I need to investiagte for my baby asap. Secondly, make notes if your (fenale) child gets it only very mildly - the full immunity might not be there going forward and it can be very dangerous in that girl's later pgcies. All pg women should be very aware of cpox, avoid it if possible and know their cp history.

But in general agree totally with the poster who said that you can take an awful lot of taxis for 300k and the other poster who, to paraphrase, said that when areas gentrify, you always find big arbitrages/anomalies developing.

What do people think of se4? If we had any spare cash, that would be a possibility. My dream would be to buy a really big old house - eg with relatives etc - and do it up. My idea (pipe or not) was that there are so few houses with big gardens etc in london that they have to shoot up going forward. OTOH, where does the cash come from?