zeban

Oh ok. Cool :)

I'll stay here thank you very much! The forum is also supposed to be welcoming :) I haven't said anything others haven't already said so I'd prefer it if you didn't attack me. I have qualifications in child psychology and best friends with children not to mention having grown up in a big family with children around me. I'm perfectly entitled to have opinions on parenting. No one is holier than thou and not judgemental, I'm probably just being a bit more vocal with my opinions but I haven't said anyone here are bad parents and I never would.

That's a little patronising new mother. I've been to uni and done a postgrad, I know how to answer a question but this forum is also about debating issues which I don't think there's anyhing wrong with. I know people don't tend to like debating issues in the Family Room but hey, sometimes I think it can be interesting albeit clearly a little controversial.

I'm sorry I get pretty het up about certain things. I work in Clapham and it's full of Mum's who are horribly competitive and everyday make me wonder what having children actually means to some. A woman told me she has a nanny 3 times a week even though she's a stay at home mum which I'm afraid I find depressing. Yes I'm being judgemental and no as everyone knows I don't have kids but some of my best friends do and they cope just fine. Some are even single parents so don't even have help from husbands/partners let alone are in the position to hire help. My best friend is on her third- had her first when she was 19 and the last two at 27 and 28, and is taking it in her stride so sometimes I do wonder if some people don't want the downsounds of parenting rather than it being about being 'lucky' enough to hire help? It's just a thought. I do have my reservations about some 'modern parenting' shall we say, and I think that's ok but I agree overall horses for courses. I will try to keep my strong opinions to myself as I don't want to create bad feelings.

Perhaps I do find it sad that people hire people to do this rather than get their family and partners involved.

No I'm not having a dig at Moos at all. Moos does sound like hers was more practical so I'm sorry if I seemed to be attacking you. It's the 'sleep training' thing I find pretty sad.

I don't agree- It's not about 'help' at all. It's a maternity nurse.. it's ridiculous! it's called parenting no? midwife/cleaning they're different. Have the confidence to do certain things yourself!

Sad that people don't want the downsides of babies. Sad that people think all babies are the same. Sad that they make it into another competitive thing.

Hmmmm.. I just find it a bit sad really.

Moos Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Maternity nurses aren't all like this. I was > lucky to have one for No.1 for 2 weeks, and she > was a very gentle & sweet person who listened to > what we wanted and didn't ever advocate leaving to > cry. You don't have to completely hand over your > baby, but they can let you nap during the day or > whatever you need, and mine was great at helpin > out with washing, cooking and so on. Oh, and when > she brought tiny Moosling to me in the middle of > the night for a "breastfeed" (ho ho, more like > shrieking & thrashing session), he came with a > glass of warm milk & some buttered toast for me! > Luxury.. See Monkey's post: 'Maternity nurses only do what a lot of our mothers and grandmothers would do: structured feeds during the day and routines. Aren't they just an expensive luxury for people who have forgotten how to raise babies?'

I agree Monkey

new mother Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > We thought about it and decided against, to the > horror of most of our friends. Are you serious?!!!! From this thread it just sounds like another way those awful competitive mothers can compete with eachother... 'My Darling sleeps through the whooooole night'!

New Mother, I don't think 'most would agree with that.' Some would but not most. I'm not saying people love the sacrifices all day every day but some people don't hate it. For some people, parenting gives their lives meaning beyond just themselves. It's not really just a tick box or a right of passage- it's more than that. In terms of sacrificing money, I think sometimes those that don't have much to begin with, and probably never really will are so used to making fairly big sacrifices anyway and so don't resent it so much because spoiling themselves with their money has never really been an option anyway. Just a thought. I'm not saying it's a wealthy/poor thing.

My Mum had my brother at 45. He wasn't planned as she was on the mini pill and didn't expect to get pregnant!

Susy, this is the bravest post I have ever seen and has brought me to tears. I feel for you so so much and I'm so sorry you're going through this. I don't know if it helps but my dad was violent. My Mum left him when I was about two and my older sister was 4 after he punched her in the face and gave her a black eye whilst she was holding me in her arms. That was when she decided to leave and she took out an injunction against him and never looked back. I thank goodness every day for her finding the strength to walk away. Although it makes me sad that she did it for us and not for her as she realised then that one day he could hurt us (the children) despite being utterly loving and adoring of us before. And she loved him. But THAT is love. There truly are no excuses for violence- especially against your loved ones, no matter how shitty a life he's had. I believe hand on heart you've done the right thing. Single parenthood is tough but do-able and you will find a way. I actually think it will be easier than what you've been putting up with. My Mum brought us up on her own and I'm glad she's shown me just how much strength us women and especially mothers have. There are refuges that you can go to. From there you could get on a list for some social housing. It's not all awful 20 floor tower blocks in shitty areas and you may well (and should be) a priority if your income is limited. Whenever I think of how psychologically damaged I probably would have been growing up in such an environment it sends shivers down my spine. Luckily I have no recollection of my father at all and his violence towards my Mum am very glad. I'm not sure how the situation would have been if he had tried to track me and my sister down and build a relationship with us later in life but he hasn't and I have to say as much as I would have liked a father, I don't think he deserved me in his life so I've never felt the need to track him down. I think we sometimes think or are led to believe that any father is better than none but that's really not true. My Mum has also never once said anything bad about him to me or my sister so this was all my own decision and I've never regretted it. Of course I'm not saying your situation has to end up like mine. IF he gets help there's no reason why he can't have a relationship with your daughter but it has to be later once he's sorted himself out and it has to be under yours or a courts terms. My Mum would happily talk to you if you have any questions. Or you can email her or she can email you. Please let me know. Best wishes. I know you'll be ok. I'm not demonising him but you have to put yourself and your child first and by leaving that's exactly what you've done.

I'm not sure. But it was interesting seeing different people's parenting styles.

Really interesting. on BBC3 now.

I see. Might walk down there and see if they need any help.

Absolutely agree KK

RosieH, that's fantastic that Peckham is already almost cleaned up.

Why don't you buy some things for Peckham then James? East Dulwich or not Peckham is our neighbour and we should all look out for eachother.

I'm absolutely devasted. If anyone is being allowed to clean up Peckham could you please post here as I'd like to help but a little scared to wander around there on my own.

Not true at at Richardbach. What a stupid thing to say. I'm not the biggest fan of police myself and I do think some are in way too much for the power but I wouldn't call them thugs at all. There are some decent ones out there. I have no sympathy for a drug dealing gun toting idiot.

DulwichFox I know the area well actually. And I can truly say that it's one of the worst and most dangerous parts of London. Most parts of London have their good parts and their bad but Tottenham is a truly horrible area and very unsafe. I don't know why but it just seems to attract pretty unsavoury people. Always has done. There's so much gang activity, drug dealing. The amount of rapes that occur around the area is shocking. So if the police presence around there gets heavy, if they use a lot of stop and search, then as far as I'm concerned, it's completely justified. The guy had a gun. As far as I'm concerned, you have a gun because you intend to kill or maim another person. Yet when the tables are turned and you're then killed yourself, it's a tragedy! I mean, really?!

I completely agree with all of the above. This is a disgusting disgrace, absolutely nothing can jusitify such acts of violence.