malumbu

Struth. We are one of the three big players in Europe and can be seen to dampen down the power of the Germans. In my particular area we dressed up some good areas of EU policy as our own, almost as if we were embarassed to say good things about the Union. "It was the prospect of that "ever closer union" concept (driven by France and Germany) that frightened these voters -quite understandable, given the failure of monetary union." Maybe the view of some of the informed voters, and similarly that the EU was an evil institution that supported the mill owners and bankers that did not benefit the masses (I assume Corbyn's core beliefts). But for many (if not the masses) - misinformation, immigration, loathing the metropolitan elite, lack of perceived benefits from gloablisation

Wow, perhaps a letter to the Dailty Mail (angry of ED), I'm not taking the pee rather that would be an interesting experiment.

Cycling for an hour or so in London is good for your health. If you were cycling all day then the exposures would outweigh the cardio-vascular benefits. These aren't my words but an acedemic expert. Air quality is worse in-vehicle, particular for cabbies. There have been some good pop science programmes that explain this well. Sadly I can't find the programme on Youtube http://www.open.edu/openlearn/whats-on/tv/bang-goes-the-theory-series-7-episode-8 https://www.ovguide.com/tv_episode/bang-goes-the-theory-season-7-episode-8-air-pollution-4520959 Neither actually seem to show the programme, anyway they put monitors on a commuter cyclist, rail commuter and driver in Brum and exposure increased in that order. It was repeated with the same results on a more recent science programme.

I expect that most posting here feel passionately about leaving Europe, many like me will be in denial for the next two years, others are being more pragmatic, and some welcoming it. I don't think that we we are representive of the nation as a whole where there are no doubt many 'weak' remainers and leavers who just want to get on with it all, and a fair number may not even be bothered to vote in the GE. Don't take this as a sign that it was a good decision to leave.

There was a lot of interest on air quality on this site, but it seems to have gone quiet. Respond by 15 June. www.gov.uk/government/news/new-air-quality-plan-published-for-consultation I think most manifestos have commitments. I've tried to raise the broader picture under the diesel cars thread. Do read the plan and give views, there are no simple answers in a Western economy and I worry that Brexit and the Election will marginalise the Environment and that future governments will not want to intervene against the motorist as this loses votes. No rise in fuel tax for 13 years now.

Started on a Yammy RS 125 single at 20 (relatively old), then a 250 Honda Superdream (as the masses did, but got caught up when learner laws changed making it worthless), Suzy 380 two stroke GT380 tripple (knock knock, who's that, my piston seizing - but now quite collectable, weird Honda CBX 550, monster Kwaka Z1100A shaft (disolved into rust), ancient Honda 250 (about 1975), French grey import Yamaha 750 shaft, then two Kwaka ZZR600s, first got stolen and the seoond I used so infrequently that it just started falling apart. Then, even though I hadn't reached middle age, just seemed pointless as I wasn't riding. Had push bikes for most of the time too. Always wanted a A10 (Beezer) and have ridden a couple of them. Borrowed a BM k100 (odd tripple 1000cc) and also ran a c90 step through doing it up for someone and got a Suzie 100 dumped on me once. Dunno how I would cope if I was a kid nowadays, 75 part test and insurance at about ten grand. Have a Jersey motorbike license somewhere (long out of date) as well as a UK one. Sometimes I surprise people by telling them of my biking days. Doing 500 miles in day coming to an interview for example. Only one crash when a Riley Elf (in Jersey) pulled across me driven by a old lady. I had to call the OB who turned up on a BMW R80 twin and worked out quickly who was to blame. A Riley Elf was a variant of the mini (like the Wolsley Hornet). Leathers and helmets are probably still in the loft. Tell us about your bikes, young and old (bikes and people).

Ah 'minorit' of motorbike hating cyclists. Apologies didn't read this, there are so many blanket statements made on this site. So I am definitely and ass for ass-uming. EV (electric vehicle) access to bus lanes is being proposed and may already be happening eg in Milton Keynes. And in Norway. Watch this space.

I've known a couple of Beverley (males) both would now be between 60 and 90 suggesting that it was a bloke's name. What a great term bloke is, and geezer too. They'd make great names. Mate was dog sitting for 'Scrotum' and 'Retch' walking around the park shouting their names. John Seldom Gummer called his dogs Saddam and soemthing like Tariq (it wasn't Tariq but another henchman) What about Renton?

Should'nt be allowed full stop - a popularist move by Boris, and I resonded to the consultation. Nor electric cars. And this is from someone who rode motorbikes for a long time in central London and is a supporter of electric cars. As a cyclist I used to note a pecking order in ability from motorbike (best) to scooter to cabbies doing the knowledge (worst). Doesn't seem so pronounced nowadays. My commmute on motorbike from Havering to SW1 in the late 80s is for another thread. It was like war out there! Why the comment motorbike hating cyclists? We all have to get on together and generally do.

Nope they sell cars that will sell. Nice balanced post Cardelia. Nitrous oxide is not toxic in fact I understand that celbs take if for fun. For many giving birth its essential. It's a nasty greenhouse gas though. I'm going to start a thread on consultation on the air quality plan, to bet a greater interet on this pretty important issue.

How fast were you driving? If you were speeding it may have been me. Life is too short. Move on. That will no doubt fick you off! The thread on irrational rage seems much more fun.

My point was it isn't simply a case of those dirty disel cars, and there are many reasons why we are in this position. I wasn't talking about totally redesigning engines, rather the control systems that help determine power, fuel efficiency and pollution. I expect that as more and more testing results come out, and the new standards are introduced, we will find out that some diesel cars are much cleaner than others. Now whether that is luck, the design of the engine and pollution reducing technology, or the way the engine is managed I don't know. For heavy vehicles there had to be some more fundamental redesign to meet emissions standards, there again there tendes to be far more space in a truck or bus to fit a chemistry set. Go back 25 years and many cars were much lighter and flimsier. Road safety standards changed making them heavier, and weitght has a big influence on fuel economy. Going back further as a young driver there were plenty of cars (virtually all petrol with decent fuel economy). And nobody wanted a diesel because they were agricultural in performance. (Yep the turbo also had a big effect). A quick Google shows that, for example, an estate car can exceed 1.5 tonnes and go up to a Range Rover and over two tonnes. OK we don't all drive Range Rovers but with the popularity of SUVs, and the 'I'll be more safer than you' weights are going up. The 1990 Citroen AX sports was like sh... off a shovel, weighing less than 800 kg so you'd come off pretty bad against a modern car. Crash impact systems leading up to autonomous cars could lead to considerable light-weighting but that is some way off. I'm still not convinced there are government files warning that there would be mass adoption of diesel cars and that we'd all die. The state of knowledge until recent years was that fine particles were dangerous, and that these would be significantly reduced as technology was fitted. Which has happened - less and less is from diesel, and much you can't do a lot about blowing over from the continent. And as many have pointed out construction. Nitrogen dioxide moved from an irritant to something more sinister in recent years. It was not hushed up, or a coup by the Grauniad/Greenpeace. Read the expert Committee papers eg www.gov.uk/government/publications/nitrogen-dioxide-health-effects-of-exposure There has also been a number of select committee reports and it is a bit rich of Ed Davey to blame the Tories when his party were also in government. Anyway simply trying to put a bit of balance/context into the argument. I'm a tree hugger but I simply don't buy into much of the popular views. And if you are going to get stuff delived, for the time being it will very likely to be a 'dirty diesel' Here's something to help you save fuel - buses use it, but will it catch on for car drivers? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/magazine-39792384/could-this-box-make-you-a-better-driver

And I genuinely worked with a Mike Cox (not Hunt)

Worked with a Nicola who married a Mr Nicholls. And a Lynn who became Lynn Flynn. A Ms Cunze (German name) who probably couldn't wait to change her name. And a friend who's maried name became Bowel, and they changed it to Bowl. A bit like Keeping up Appearances, the sitcome where the name was pronounced Bouquet not Bucket. Which leads me onto Penge pronounced in a Frech style (the fun we had with Sarf London names in the 80s and 90s.

Met a Zebedee a few years ago. I cracked up and was tempted to ask about the Magic Roundabout. It's a generation thing and the youngster hadn't a clue where I was coming from. As with many things it is what you associate a name with from your yonger days. Harry was Harry worth the comic, and was a very old fashioned name. Now one of the most popular no doubt due to a certain character in a popular book. My dad was 'Guy' we hated it, he hated it yet in the 50s there was a famous hunky actor (Guy Maddison) that popularised it. Now Guy is a really cool game. The odd ones were names interchanged between the genders - I know a Lee (girl) Tracy (boy) and Dale (girl). There was also a boy named Sue and a girl called Johnny. Sometimes it works (eg Bertie) and Robyn's in the US are girls, rather than the usual boy Robin. You don't hear of many Leslies or Lesleys nowadays.

I meant to say a little more. In the good old days (!) you were generally OK sitting with the home fans, but less so standing on the terrace. Now with all seaters the rough end, and the posh seats (OK there are now some very posh seats now) difference has generally gone. Although when I first sat in the shed I asked if this was wise - it's OK mate all the nutters are now in the Matthew Harding stand. Saying that there were clearly some old school in the shed. In times gone by you'd sit in the 'posh seats' being able to be a little less discrete, and if you lost (which was the safer option) you'd get banter that went into ribbing. Always a fun time at Fulham in recent years where there is no proper segregation in the away end and they even advertise some seats as being neutral. No bother although there was a chant at one time "Can you hear the neutrals sing". I was in thd old stand when Liverpool got a very late winnner a few years ago and there was a bit of an altercation. "Mate we have no problem with you being here, but don't stand up and cheer when you score". It was all very polite. As you'd expect at Craven Cottage.

That last post was a response to Stringvest. To Uncle Len. My dear man. Blair was a disicple of Thatcher. We lost the engineering and manufacturing bsse mcuh earlier. She shagged the NW, the NE, the Midlands and South Wales then. He may of finished it off, but certainly didn't start it. And until Lehman Brother etc (and I am sure that others better placed to say the warning signs were there) things had in deed Only Got Better. Well ignoring the illegal war and selling off even more public assets. But if we are beter at doing things than making things then so be it. If my kids don't know what a lathe is, does it matter?

Go back a 100 years and see how the masses were treated in the factories and mills my friend. That is not rhetoric that is fact. I've been a trade union member for 30 years, and went on strike for one day as a protest against changes to the pension scheme. Please refrain from talking about us and them, and a myopic view of the 1970s. That's not pretending its all good. But having arms severed on the factory floor, or no support to widows and dependents after a work fatality is thank God a thing of the past. And also have a look at agriculture over a similar time period, to a time when there was no subsidies and protection for farmers, and we produced much less of our food, and almost starved to death in world wars. Come back when you have an informed view and we can have a proper debate. For example when our rail engineering was the most advanced in the world, under the state, in the 1970s, electricity generation, telecomms and no doubt more. All sold off for a quick buck and votes for the Tories who promted greed and selfishness.

I find much of the debate here very informative, including the dangers to the economy of Corybyn's agenda. Yet haven't we already scored a massive home goal against our economy by voting to leave Europe?

I've sat in the shed a few times as an away supporter. Had a nice chat with the Chels fans, who essentially said no problems mate, but just don't celebrate if you score - "We've been in the same position as you". Had a similar experience at Old Trafford where a bloke warned me at half time that the stewards would throw me out if they realised I wasn't a home supporter, and the prawn sandwich eating brigade wouldn't punch me but inform the stewards. I spent the second half having some good banter with this guy, particularly as he was from Bolton so I could rib him about about being a glory hunter. Intersting to see what happended last night. Pay a grand to sit wit the home supporters, than get punched for the privilage of it. Not wishing to start a war, just hearing your views and experiences.

There's this great information source called the internet which tells you about everything. Here's some information about petrol cars with low carbon emissions http://www.nextgreencar.com/emissions/low-emission-cars/petrol/ Perhaps this interwebnet thingy will catch on. This may be of interest too http://www.nextgreencar.com/emissions/low-emission-cars/petrol/ At 500 odd quid this must be some real muscle car. Bet is sounds good.

No no no no no no no no Artificial grass is fine for all weather football pitches. And lining butcher's display shelves. It's the thin end of the wedge. It's dumbing down of society. It supports no ecosystems. You may as well just pave your garden (and paradise). And put up stone cladding; there is no compromise here. I am out seeding and watering in April and October (preferably using water from the butt, if there was any damn rain). And still the moss comes back. I'll continue to do this until the day I die. Wars have been fought for less. Turn again Dick Whittington

You could also argue UKIP do/did this - have some nice policies that many in the street would like. In the knowledge that they will never be in power to deliver. So folks - two choices back to the 50s with the Tories - where collective memory is very rosy, but it wasn't all great. Or to the 70s with Labour where we had the opposite - most think times were bad but there were a lot of good things too. Or for me a Hermit's cave

The One Show was fingers down the throat time. I suppose on the positive it was less fingers down the throat than Maggie and Dennis. I was on LBC once on a consumer programme in an official capacity. I have a face for radio. I wanted to start my bit off by saying that I was surprised they still existed. I'd lived in London for well over ten years at that point amd wasn't aware of it. I thought that LBC was something that my older relatives had listened to in the 70s and had ceased broadcasting after inappropriate comments following the death of a pope John Paul I in 1978 after only a month in office. I understand that is is more relevant now.

Ordinary working families need strong and stable leadership and ordinary working families need to be protected from those dreadful energy giants. I would expect ordinary working people to have the sense and knowledge to shop around and switch suppliers. Obviously they haven't got the time as ordinary working familes must spend all their time on working and family matters. These ordinary working families are already being targeted by the price comparison web sites. Now as for the old, vulnerable etc. There is probably a case for intervention. But ordinary working families with strong and stable leaders? I'm getting peed off with the whole thing. And Jezza following the line that we have a clear mandate to leave Europe. Forgetting the lies, the lack of a coherent stay campaign, and his flipin lack of inspiration and clear message. Well he got what he wanted and should vote for strong and stable leadership.