malumbu

Whoops, two similar posts, well two for the price of one. I had a look to see if anyone had ever proposed 15 minutes cities in the UK and came across the article in Forbes with the lovely title "by railing against 15 minute cities Sunak aligns UKL government with conspiracy theorists. I couldn't possibly comment.....😃 https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2023/09/30/by-railing-against-15-minute-cities-rishi-sunak-aligns-uk-government-with-conspiracy-theory-believers/?sh=79c716ed7906

Simply saying that some on low pay/income will not have a car. For those on low income who may have to change their car to meet environmental standards there are low cost vehicles available and schemes like the scrapage offered by Mayor Khan will help. This whole "war on motorists" is a term invented by the right wing press and capitalised on by politicians, as part of their phony manufactured culture wars. The quicker we return to the real issues, inflation, health, education, housing, social care and the mess the west has made globally the better. I've never used the term war on motorists and if you join Southwark LCC on one of their social rides you will not meet people who lay down on the road to block traffic junctions. But well done Malumbu for recreating the Lounge of old and getting the broader discussion going. Sunak was pants this morning and referring to inflation as a tax was nonsense.

I've never talked about a war on motorists. This is a phrase used by the right wing press. And capitalised by politicians in their manufactured culture wars. Join me for a social ride with Southwark LCC and I doubt whether any of them have laid down on a junction and blocked the traffic. I'm simply saying that some of the less well off will not have a car. The ULEZ scrappage scheme has helped those who had to change their vehicles who were more financially challenged. And there are enough low mileage older petrol cars where you need a car for work, shopping etc and if absolutely necessary school I know that from personal experience and happy to recommend models. Hopefully the debate will move onto education, cost of living, NHS, social care, housing, speeding up the asylum application process etc. Sunak's comments on inflation being a tax were just plain daft. The focus on motoring stuff is plain daft. A successful distraction but such a small part of the story. Hooray this thread has morphed into the old Lounge, well done Mal.

Sunak was not great on Kuenssberg this morning, or shall I say was evasive as ever. If he wants to help the most underprivileged in this country then he needs to recognise that many not have a car, and hence supporting active travel and public transport would be great, and that they may live in some of the most poorly insulated properties in the country, to help sort that out, or get the landlord to do it. So there is a programme to help those on benefit with the latter, so why not say it? The excitement about reversing 15 minute cities is an odd one, as far as I know it is neither Tory or Labour policy. The conspiracy theorists have had a hay day on this. He had therefore abandoned a programme that he never had, must like the seven compartment bins. Kuenssberg was reasonably on the ball pushing him about Tory boroughs adopting this, ULEZ and Johnson and the like. Starmer's turn next week. If I closed my eyes and listened the two leaders sound quite similar.

First round of LTNs was here's some money. Go and do it. That was government, the local authorities did not initiate the scheme. Anyway I'm well bored of LTNs. Please go and discuss that on the LTNs thread. Didn't any of you angry about LTNs think the government's u turn on 20 mph interesting? So you have a government who introduced LTNs, didn't support them, and then once the Mail got interested changed their mind. Believe you I know. And encouraged and supported 20 mph only to now to reverse their policy. Heavens they are awful. Awful. Awful.

Ultimately local authorities should be taking decisions on local roads. Government can put relevant safeguards in place. Government set up a programme of Low Traffic Neighbourhoods. If you don't like them blame government. There is always an argument of do it now rather than naval gaze for years. Not so long ago government was very happy with 20mph zones too. There was no great backlash when most of the London inner boroughs introduced this. In Wales on the basis of my argument above then this perhaps should have similarly been up to local authorities. Although I have no problem with government reducing the national speed limit to 20mph in urban areas in England, following suite. Here's the government guidance on 20mph "In 1999, the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 was amended to allow local authorities to designate 20mph speed limits without the prior approval of the Secretary of State. In 2013, DfT provided revised guidelines on the Setting Local Speed Limits (DfT Circular 01/2013), encouraging traffic authorities to consider introducing more 20mph limits over time, and over a larger number of roads. It states that where there is expected to be a positive effect on road safety and a generally favourable reception from local residents, traffic authorities are able to use their powers to introduce 20mph speed limits on major streets where foot and cycle movements are important, and on residential streets where the characteristics of the street are suitable. It advises that 20mph limits are most appropriate where the mean speed is already at or below 24mph; and states that speed limits should encourage self-compliance with no expectation of additional police enforcement. There has been a substantial growth in the implementation of area-wide limits in recent years, in response to the guidance." Hardly hostile.

Sad that you are rejoicing in this Rocks. Total ignorance by the authorities on 15 minute cities. Do you not agree with any of the Councillors views? And... could you and others please use the LTN threads rather than hijack this one which is about the governments u turns etc on climate change commitments. Your time would be well served listening to people like Sir David King.

Not sure why you consider London is in such a mess, there are good things and bad things. Most of us still want to live in the Metropolis. Recent governments have looked to reversing some of the mess from privitisation of buses, using the TfL franchise model, and the first publicly run buses have returned to Greater Manchester https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-66901355 . Under Johnson there were quite ambitious plans to increase bus patronage across the country, but I expect this has been put on the back burner https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/558349/the-bus-services-bill-an-overview.pdf. Let's see if Sunak agrees with the vision in the Bill: The Government wants to: Grow bus passenger numbers,Tackle air quality hot spots, Improve bus services for passengers, Enable a thriving and innovative commercial bus sector, Help cities and regions unlock opportunity and grow their economy Of course we forget we have a Labour Mayor (Livingstone) to thank for much of the improvements in bus services - reversed in some respects due to Covid but in particular Johnson's bad deal with the government over TfL funding. It's too easy to look at his failings rather than his positive legacy. Hmm, got that one wrong. The Bus Bill was actually from 2016. I understood that in 2021 we were going to have a new Bill under Johnson, but that doesn't have seem to gone ahead. I will ask my Whitehall contacts for more info.

By blaming Southwark and TfL for the national picture you have fallen into Sunak's trap. This is about how awful our government is. It doesn't matter a jot to me about Khan, Southwark or any other Labour authority. Sunak senses that many reasonable people may vote for him and is exploiting that I'm currently on a185 bunched with another 185 on Champion Hill. Annoying but not vote Tory due to that.

he's going to announce this at conference. He's going to centralise control rather than allow local decisions. This is what some of you seem to want - carcentric transport policy. You can drive your kids to school at 30mph, and if you hit the rare kid walking to school so what? They should have been in a car, I'm avoiding using the language of what I think about this shower.

My fear is that it won't be middle England but left leaning professionals that keep this incompetent lot in power. Don't let this be on you conscious. Maybe now time to take all this stuff you don't like on the chin for the benefit of society. I'm not sure that Starmer has the balls to respond to what will come out at Tory conference next week including central government overriding decisions, right or wrong, taken by local government. Heavens Sunak is pathetic In my view, not that of this site

Back to Thames Water why did many of us well over 40 rejoice in the privatisation water and other utilities under Thatcher and particular Major and even under Blair whilst we made a quick buck. I didn't buy any shares .... Serves us right!

That applies to most lager. Earl pubs in London have always been expensive. Or you can compromise your principles and go to wetherspoons. Or go to the Blythe the best pub in the world. The creation of pub chains, closing of breweries and national and regional brewers to global multi-nationals hasn't helped. But go into LL at a weekend and there are plenty of people prepared to pay top dollar for overhopped overcooled over fizzy and over priced IPA. Don't get me started on the contamination of our traditional apple fermented drink (cider) with other fruits to make it an alcopop.

Wrong thread FM. There are plenty of others having a go at Southwark. This one is about national government. (Rather alarmist post by the way. Not worth commenting whatever thread it was on!)

There is a fundamental issue about driver behaviour that I have banged on about for years. It's the soft on the accelerator and minimised braking, watching the road ahead and anticipating. Let's face it that 90 percent of drivers have no idea. I do very little driving but would beat most in any ecodriving challenge. Having had a professional interest in road user behaviour and standards it frustrates me greatly. Government does diddly squat and gave up on its own road to zero commitments on this published under the last Tory government. Such a shame that drivers see no room to improve.

I'd say bloody mindedness. For clarity that was a facetious comment/banter not a snide comment. 😊😊😉

It was tackling anti social behaviour amongst all road users. Cars were impounded, drivers were arrested and there were more tickets issued to none pushbike users. Standard and others are playing into this drivers Vs cyclists manufactured culture war nonsense. If I had a penny for every time I said this then I'd have enough money for a milky way.....

A misleading title for the article Rocks as this was not just aimed cyclists for example drivers on mobiles and discouraging mobile phone theft. Perhaps an anti cycling bias?!

Maybe you've got a Poltergeist! But to be serious I can't see this being anything to do with your mains water

Ask the price in future. I used to drink in the Crystal Palace Tavern. What happened to that local boozer? I've twice refused to pay, once for a half which was so expensive I thought they were charging me for a pint, on Vauxhall embankment. More recently I refused to pay in the Dulwich Woodhouse, but I should have known it would be overpriced. Both pubs had the right to insist I paid Suggest you drink in the Blythe, Castle or Capitol in future

It's was not the threat, this was already happening before the UK and the EU came up with bans. Many manufacturers have embraced this such as Volvo and VW - JLR who were the major who were happy for postponement of the ban being an exception. Drivers like electric cars (once they have sat down and driven one), and once the second had price starts to tumble they will be far more affordable so that isn't an issue (as well as prices coming down due to economies of scale). Whatever people think about the 'dirty, polluting Chinese' they will be ahead of the game in green technologies, they are already manufacturing electric buses for the UK (the wonderfully named BYD or Build Your Dreams) and BYD and MG are targeting fairly successfully the lower end of the market. The Leaf built in Washington is a great success and, certainly in the recent past, and the ideal city car (far more competitors now particularly as VW comes up to speed). So a Tory dog's dinner. Again.

This goes back to my early comment about the level of ignorance. Car making has long since been a global industry. Whilst since the 80s and governments have run down our manufacturing sector in favour of the service industries, the UK has become more specialist in terms of production hence Ford make most of their diesel engines for Europe in the UK. Coupled to that we weren't very good at mass production of cars in most of the UK's factories which was another factor in relocating. Of course that is a sweeping statement as there are some better run factories nowadays such as Cowley and Sunderland. But if you know better CPR.....

I've just had to leave watching QT on catch up due to the lack of knowledge by most of the panel and by the audience. I don't know why there is so much mass ignorance about net zero. Some brief history. As the UK motoring industry has contracted over recent decades the UK has become more niche, whether it is making Ford engines for much of Europe in Bridgend and Dagenham, or the high tech innovations particularly in the West Midlands. On the latter we have become world leader. We've had the target of no new conventional car sales by 2030 for a good ten years, and this has been well on trajectory. Johnson decided to ban the sales (before this it was all about market conditions) so he could show how much better the UK was that the rest of Europe. He didn't need to do that but he did. Similarly under May we announced how we could do things much better in terms of farming and the natural environment now we were not shackled by EU legislation. Well that proved a great success didn't it.... Four years ago things were looking so positive when government published their Road to Zero Strategy https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/739460/road-to-zero.pdf, and we were amongst world leaders in connected and autonomous vehicles, and mobility as a service. I had to pinch myself but this was under May, and at the launch which I attended Secretary's of States were tripping over each other to be part of this. What on earth has happened since? This cannot just be down to Covid. From our net zero ambitions to zero ambition in a few years. And we will lose out in terms of our high tech industries. Back to your hobby horse Rocks. Mayor Khan has the authority to introduce a measure to reduce the number of older polluting cars on the streets. This will never be a popular decision in the outer boroughs. So what? And Starmer could have simply said that this was a local decision, and there are difficult conversations to be had about reducing both emissions of pollutants and carbon. We fundamentally disagree on car ownership Rocks. If it was just about utility then we'd see far more small city cars on our roads and many more would use Zip and other car clubs. It's a dream, the motor industry has been selling a dream well beyond before our lifetime. So if you have the money then why not indulge yourself? Well you are free to but don't pretend that it is essential to have a certain type of car or a car at all. In my 20mph thread I said that a small majority of Welsh live in urban areas, according to various publications over 80% of the UK population live in urban areas, so no, cars are only essential for a minority of the population. Whilst I am peed off on how this will affect technology and innovation in the motoring sector, I'm far more upset on the wider announcements eg phasing out gas boilers. Time for bed. I could go on and likely will.

Hopefully for most not a controversial issue. Wales has introduced 20mph limits on urban roads. Just as we have in most inner boroughs in London. Government has commented that this was cost loads in lost production ignoring that many urban areas in England have it already, which fits in with their love motorists and manufactured culture wars agenda. I listened to the repeat of Any Questions on Saturday so left it too late to comment but the panel were pretty useless and uninformed. Phil Redond sticking up for the motorist said that as Wales in rural they all need cars there. Perhaps your hols stopped in Colwyn Bay Phil but according to the Encyclopedia Britannia four fifths of Welsh people live in urban settlements. 20 mph has to go along with public information campaigns. It can lead to smoother roads and definitely less deaths, ideally without the need for traffic calming that has to be used because so many drivers will just ignore it otherwise.

Saturday Guardian had a not particularly interesting article on air pollution, ULEZ and the like. Too late to write to them but they could have been clearer. Mayor Khan's estimate on 4000 deaths (which are the same that Mayor Johnson also gave) due to air pollution is based on the official government figures loosely scaled down to the population of London, A ten year old could work that out. Shame on Rees-Mogg for saying that only one person has died of air pollution. Deaths are approximate lives saved if we could have air with no toxic pollutants and accounts for other contributing factors.