fazer71

LondonLogCo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > If you're savy, you get what you pay for. Just > depends if you really know what you are looking > at, or what to ask for. > > *Woody > > Fazer wrote: > At the end of the day it's the finish which counts > and anyone who knows about kitchens knows even the > best are made with a form of compressed timber > which will not move over time. The surface finish > is what's important and the work surfaces and draw > systems soft close etc etc .. If its hand made and > hand painted its probably got a shorter lifespan > than the factory finished product. But will cost a > lot more small bone comes to mind expensive crap. Yes you're correct that build quality will last well past it's totally out of fashion and new developments have made the layout and appliances go the way of a coal fired hearth. It will still need painting many times before the factory finished products are past their best. Also if you like a modern look you're going to be a little stuck poggenpohl it's not ! Fashion is the biggest enemy of any kitchen not wear and tear ... And the carcas only need to last as long as that too. I ripped out a smallbone kitchen in my last flat sold it to a neighbours son for his country cottage so on that basis recyclable in an oldywoldy way .... If that excellent build quality means it won't end up in a skip when you fancy getting all the new bells and whistles or just because your old kitchen looks naff. Even if you paint it a different colour you're still stuck with a last decade layout and look..... I thought those smallbone style hand made kitchens were only being sold in tonbridge wells these days not hip ED what next AGAs running 365days a year in everyone's 1 and 2 bed flats? That was so 80s sloane ranger styleeeee....

Bob Apologies if I come across like that I really don't mean it I try to be balanced and offer a common sense opinion. It just makes me mad and my blood boils to think of anyone paying ?2,000 for a single sash window let alone paying out to replace 14-16 sash windows on a Victorian house potentially ?32,000. Its Totally insane if you can't afford to do that there's a perfectly acceptable alternative. As computedshorty has explained above properly seasoned soft timber would last for many years only the softwood and hardwood we have today isn't properly seasoned it's rushed out into production and then it's installed without being properly primed and treated never mind the lack of seasoning. Bathroom is totally different bespoke shower enclosure high end stone German taps and mixers all come to lots of money uf heating etc etc and weeks of man hours to install. All of will be used several times a day every day of the year for many many years. Windows you can only make so well they're just a couple of glass units some lead weights a couple of pulleys and a few bits of wood glued and nailed together every one is the same as the next just a different size they're easy to make on a production line... They take a coouple of hours at most to install an entire house can have its windows replaced in 2 days max. Regardless I still think and I've said many times if you have the money and that's what you want then that's great. Yippy do daaaaaaa fantastic. For me even if I had the money I would only bother with the timber sash windows in certain windows. We get too much wet weather and not having access to lead paint "i believe the queen does" we're only going to have to replace and reprint them for the rest of our lives and life is too short to have to worry about windows over holidays no matter how lovely they look. Just my opinion....

red devil Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > fazer71 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > Buy an Audi almost as good as a BMW witout the > > scumbag attraction problems... > > Surprised to hear you say that Faze, I always > thought BMW was the uPVC of the German motor > industry, whilst Audi is the hardwood > option....ding ding, round 2! :) Both Upvc IMO .... ;) hehe only Morgan in the uk have the hardwood option covered living in the past big style... There is no point in having a nice car in london It'll get scratched dented and abused by jealous tossers.

It's ?120 difference in the materials. The tooling these days is the same. For any sensible work shop. I had some shelves made in iroko And asked the question no difference these days was the answer. You're talking your own book trying to justify a rediculous higher price margine. The same is true of these bespoke kitchen manufacturers. All a load of hype... At the end of the day it's the finish which counts and anyone who knows about kitchens knows even the best are made with a form of compressed timber which will not move over time. The surface finish is what's important and the work surfaces and draw systems soft close etc etc .. If its hand made and hand painted its probably got a shorter lifespan than the factory finished product. But will cost a lot more small bone comes to mind expensive crap. Biggest % margine ? Really? There's no way to confirm that. I bet your margin on a hardwood sash is pretty good maybe ?1500 profit on every one sold at ?2000. Probably more if you install 7 for a house front. It's all about covering your business rates and tax but there's no way that can be justified as value for money when compared. Good luck to you. As long as the buyers feel good inside and they have the money that's all that matters but to discount the current Upvc sash windows is nonsense. Because there is no need to install ?2000 hardwood sash windows when a perfectly acceptable cost effective low maintainance alternative exists. Its down to material development and mnufacturing progress very few cobblers and there will be few wood sash window makers too. It's only a matter of time before we get a Upvc type material which will look just like wood and be paintable too and it will never rot and it'll cost ?350. That's the future.

I see you wish to avoid my question of how ?1000 price difference can be justified for soft wood vs hard wood as there isn't a ?1000 cost difference in the timber. What is the real difference from soft to hard wood ?120 ? Nice little earner I'd say as the design and the manufacturing are identical. Cars have a few million quids worth of product development sash windows soft or hard wood are identical. Only the wood differs. And window sales manufacturers make it sound like you can't buy the soft wood as they are soooo inferior.... It's a waste of money so forcing them to buy the hard wood. It's all a ruse by the window manufacturers and average people customers dont question it because unlike German consumers British consumers are mostly uneducated in the practicalities of life.. What is the true difference in cost ???? You'll never say because you know I'm right .... It's ok for you to offend the intelligence of your customers?? Soft wood ?1000 hard wood should be ?1120 ...

We can only blame the environmental issues on the price of wood products. They should be cheaper why are they so expensive? The paints and other chemicals used to protect and preserve wood have an environmental cost and the related impact "fuel etc " of the ongoing upkeep of wood should also be a factor in the assessment of the environmental impact of wood often the likes of greanpeace fail to consider that in the final calculation. I considered all factors and came to the conclusion that my quality of life and hard earned money in my bank account was more important to me. And as I understand it upvc is a byproduct of oil / fuel production which would be produced regardless. Wood grows everywhere You'd think it would be dirt cheap maybe it's all the energy used to dry it and transport it that makes it so expensive? I think the jury is our on which product has the most impact on the environment..?

Yea right that's exactly what I DO ........... Why are you so concerned that everyone must spend ?2,000 on timber sash windows . I've already said that's fine if you have the money and are happy to pay for the future decorating costs for your life...time... You're a little sad to be trying to take the piss out of me when I'm the one who's giving a balanced view . That makes you a little sad vs me I'd say.... Where I'm offering a considered view you have to stoop to sarcastic comments .... Nice just like your overrated wooden windows just a shallow surface thing with no real substance...

Good 4 U some people have it all for the rest of us that's not an option... I really don't think the old retired couple nextdoor could keep up with you .... Or notice the benefits of spending ?11k extra on timber sash windows unless they have like you money to burn....

Another example of only wanting to deal with tosser builder plumber decorators once in a life time. Do it right and do it so it lasts. I guarantee you a nice bathroom will sell a property over nice windows any day.

Unavailble tickets are shown as available for hours on end. Complete cack. Very frustrating no wonder he ask me to have a look thinking he was doing something wrong. An olympic embarrassment I'd say....

Naaaa I know the difference and I know what is worth spending the money on and it's not a new build it isn't a fantasy Victorian house which has over priced marginally better items which won't make a jot of difference to my life. I'd rather spend the ?11,000 on a bathroom than timber sash windows and still live in a prime ED road in a lovely damp free rot free renovated period house with a nice modern kitchen boiler and modern trimmings. I wonder how many have timber windows and damp walls with rotting timber floors lurking below their carpet that's where I'd be spending my money not on timber fantasy sash windows at ?2k each ... Ffs lunacy of the highest order ?2,000 + years of dealing with decorators who I wouldn't ever deal with ever if I had the choice.... You keep your rotting decaying paint draining money consuming timber windows and I'll keep my lovely bathroom and holidays ... Yep the choice is all yours . It's only my opinion adding some balance to a sill view that timber is somehow better I can they're better for the supplier manufacturer and the decorator and his decorator son . But for the home owner the benefits are minimal and the price is excessive. Enjoy a life time of timber and making tea for decorators... Xx

I think if there are two identical properties side by side with only the windows being a factor You'd need to be nutter to chose a house over another because it has upvc windows. I've been looking to buy a house for a while now and I wouldn't give a toss about the windows it location and layout and quality of the inside which count. As for a few grand the windows can be replaced. Currently even houses which are rendered or pebledashed appear to sell for the same or more. Windows appear make very little difference in price. I have them because painting wood windows is silly expensive and I don't even notice that they are upvc inside they just look like white windows. All that layers of paint and patina is agro in my eyes once you've got blinds or curtains covering them you don't even notice the windows. It when you need to deal with a tosser painter and decorator burning the old paint off for days on end and have the smell and cost of all that shit that's when you notice you've got timber windows it's all the aggro that you notice...

I've had this message every time......"........! No tickets found Sorry, no exact matches were found. If you would like to amend your search, you will need to remove the session(s) you have requested from your shopping list. Then you can try one or more of the following options: Reduce the number of tickets requested per session Change the price category Select another sport or session View your shopping list

I tried to get him any tickets for the olympic stadium events and at every turn the system fails showing tickets which are not really there. I thought he was kidding as he's not IT savy.. If I was responsible for any part of that site I'd probably never get another contract. Yet those muppets are probably in a job for life. Shocking bit of scrip and shocking execution...

I only noticed as I was looking for them otherwise they look the same as the wooden ones. Have you seen them? There is a compromise and in my view the excessive price charged for wood especially hard wood is not worth the extra effort and cost. Current soft wood does not compare to the wood the Victorians used its crap. As I've said above Victorian builders would use upvc if it had been available and we'd all be saying how lovely the original Victorian upvc windows were anyone looking to replace them with wood would be considered a fool. I'm for keeping Victorian properties looking nice that doesn't mean horse hair plaster and lime mortar and damp walls when we now have much better materials which will keep the Victorian properties in good condition for another 100 years. In my view it is a compromise worth making as the currently available upvc windows look visually more than acceptable. The old upvc sash windows were crap.. Don't confuse the two ..... As for ?2,000 for hard wood sash that's a complete rip off and only good business for the makers who play on naive customers. A good compromise as I've said would be to use wood a ground floor level there's no way I'd advocate upvc French doors they look crap but a upvc sash in a bedroom or bathroom is quite acceptable IMHO and will not detract from the look of a lovely Victorian house unless you focus all your attention to them on an overall view more than acceptable. Go and look at those houses on adys rd 16 and 35 and tell me honestly that they look out of keeping.

I was told Legally you can't replace a window with a complete single glazed sash you are allowed to repair the original but if you can't repair it you are supposed to replace it with a double glazed window. If that is true the runcent are supplying an illegal product? Also whi would want a condensation making single glazed window ?

You can't get double glazed timber sash windows for that price inc fitting and Painting etc. nonsense... The cheapest would be ?1000 in soft wood installed and glazed ?2,000 is for hard wood. Anyone would resent maintaining something which has an alternative which is cheaper and requires zero care... There have been plenty of instances of soft wood sash windows rotting in no time no exaggeration..!

I've little interest in the Olympics but a friend mentioned that he was trying to get tickets in the web site and I should have a look at how awful it was. I looked and had a go at trying to get tickets. What a joke. Pure crap...

Also a wooden window can last as litle as 5 years...... Then start rotting to dust .. Upvc would never do that... The sensible thing if you must have new is only install wood where it can easily be maintained and will be noticed ie ground floor rear living kitchen rooms Everywhere else bedrooms and the front upvc would be the better option.

.?. Nonsense Upvc is recycled at the end of its life it no longer goes into landfill. Even if a modern timber window did last that long which I think is highly unlikely. I'll be dead in 50 years why on earth would I want a window which will last 300 years ? Why on earth would I want the hassle and cost of painting it every few years? There is an environmental impact on the manufacturer of the paints and the decorator needs a vehicle to go to and from the work and the scaffolders need a truck to transport the scaffolding all of which is probably a bigger environmental impact than replacing the upvc window in 50+ years time! On an aesthetic basis I can see a justification but at a HUGE questionable cost to the current and future owner and the environment.

Disgusting but there's no way to stop these scum. I've bought a bland car anything bling will attract the wrong kind of attention. Unless it looks like a drugy pimp waggon... Eg Purple porsche It's why we live in such dreary surroundings nobody wants to attract unwanted intercity attention.... Buy an Audi almost as good as a BMW witout the scumbag attraction problems...

Upvc lasts far longer than 25 years! What I don't understand is why hard wood sash windows are twice the price of soft wood. The cost of manufacturer is the same for both. The cost of hard wood "sapele" is not ?1,000 extra per window! Isn't it just a rip off? Dmit ? As for micro porous paints on south facing French doors the paint turned to dust and needed doing almost every 12 months at my parents house they were lucky no ladder or ?1,000 scaffolding needed to paint them. ?2k is a hell of a lot of money and hard wood window manufacturers are making a lot of profit there's no way they are value for money on any level when compared to upvc. They may be aesthetically better when looked at close up. Very few people have that kind of money to throw away on a very very marginal and questionable benefit which will not benefit them during their life ! Upvc is now a reliable material which can replace wood with ease and with many benefits over wood especially when used at height to minimise painting. The Victorians were far more practical than we are.... If Victorian builders had UPVC they wouldn't have made the sash windows from wood they'd have used UPVC no question .. Is it a case of snobbery ? Over practicality ? Probably. Are they really worth 4 times as much? Just go and see the upvc ones I mentioned on adys rd. Yes if money is no object then wood but most of us would rather save ?11,000+ and the same again for a life time of painting for more important life changing things like paying the mortgage going on holiday and living a comfortable life. I guess you'd be looking at your lovely wood sash windows when you should be on a beach or ski slopes living your lovely life but spend ?2k per sash and it's the sash man who'll be on the beach and ski slopes rather than you .....

hehehehe V good. Enjoy .. There's a mkt for nice colours internal painted windows 4 sure. But 99% of us just keep the windows white and muck about with the walls doors and furniture. Even so it would be possible to change the colour on the inside of upvc windows if you absolutely must I?m pretty confident it wouldn?t cost ?11,000 to achieve that?. Look ;) ?.

Ahh the white / whiter than white story let?s not get onto washing white clothes ?.. We?ll be here for years?. All shades of white depend on the colour of the sky amount of sun and reflections from surroundings. So for windows pretty much any shade of white will look like every other shade of white at some point of day or time of year over its life?.. Therefore any white will do but 99% of the time it'll be a gloss brilliant white........... Which will dull over time ...to a non gloss white.....or some other white... Fact is you?ll look at it 2wice the day it?s been painted and the day it needs painting?.. The rest of the time you?ll be living your life? unless you?ve a paint fetish.

Ummmm Quality UPVC doesn?t yellow or bend. Current timber windows are prone to rotting within a short time as the timber is usually not properly dried or treated and as we can?t use lead paint they?re unlikely to last 100years even with painting every 3 years the water will penetrate the sills will rot in no time. 1. I?m not against wood. Refurbishing the existing sash makes the most sense as long as the side boxes are still there even if there are dodgy aluminium windows inside the boxes its? easy to have sliders made and pulleys and weights to get them back to original. 2. But if that?s not possible and you absolutely can?t refurbish the existing and money is no object and you?re happy to pay for wood at ?2000 per window / ?14,000 for the 7 needed on the front of a Victorian house vs. ?3,150 for UPVC it will take many years to recouped the ?11,000 and you?ll need to pay ?700 - ?1000 every 3 years to have them professionally painted (even if you can find a pro who won?t paint them shut with cheapo watered down crap paint). 3. Otherwise the current UPVC sash looks more than acceptable and ZERO maintenance for at least 30 years but more likely 50 years. Savings on the maintenance alone placed in the bank would pay for the next gen upvc sash in 30-50years that is if you haven?t moved house or you?re not 6ft under???.. Yes they don?t look quite as good as wood but there?s no way they?ll detract from the property as long as they are of the victorian style I cycled past that house on Adys Rd it?s No16 and noticed No35 further up on the other side also has them they look fine go and see.. If money is no object then wood all the way ?.. But remember it?s not just the installation cost it?s a future of maintance and what are the chances you?ll want to paint them any colour other that white ???? If it takes 60 - 100 years for upvc to pay for themselves then wood will take 200-500 years ...... hehehehehehe