LadyDeliah

It's not getting harder for everyone, the top 10% have seen an average increase of 12% on already unequal income. http://news.sky.com/story/1019820/executive-pay-uks-top-bosses-see-12-percent-rise

We put a p/t admin/reception position paying minimum wage plus 20% commission on any cases they bring in on Gumtree and within a day and a half I had 70 responses, most of whom had degrees and previous experience (business is small - but I'm hoping to get to living wage by end of the year before anyone starts and I pay myself less than min wage). I was shocked by the interest and took it off after end of 2nd day because there were too many to go through. I hadn't advertised the commission part, so the people applying were doing so on the basis of it being a minimum wage job. It seems the dire unemployment situation is real, even in London. Imagine how bad it is outside London.

'If able' - now there's the crux. Increased unemployment, lowering of employment protection, decreased job security, mortgages/rent and kids to pay for. You may be lucky enough to work in an area of high demand, but many people don't.

The New Zealand model is much better. Legalised and unionised. The prostitutes have way more control over their working environment and are able to put in their own safety measures, which has reduced incidents of violence drastically. They are also encouraged to report crimes against them to the police and are doing so as they don't face sanctions, such as having their kids taken away. This model, however, is not being looked at in Europe, not because it is unseccesful, but because ultra so-called feminists have moral objections and seek to disempower other women who don't take the same moral stance as them. I don't consider anyone who seeks to take the power to be autonomous human beings away from women as feminists. They have no moral authority in my opinion and should be challenged by any real feminists.

Lol, or bonfire maybe?

It's just that people call it marriage.

The Luddites where also against the centralisation of weaving whereby peasants kicked off the enclosed common land had been forced into working for a pittance in the huge mills and the independent weavers who worked from their homes got punishing taxes that the mill owners were exempt from. It was a political clash and fight for survival against powerful mill owners, not just a technological issue.

Glad to be singing from the same hymn sheet for once :-)

Then on to the practicalities. Prostitute is out looking for business, punter comes up but is nervous because he might get nicked so hurries prostitute into car before she gets time to suss out he's s wrongun and ends up chopped up in bin bags. Or, police have been rounding up punters so prostitute has no money and the kids have got jam on toast again tonight and no electricity. And what about people who are disabled or too ugly to get a partner? Should they never have a sexual experience because you think paying for sex is wrong? Or others who work too hard to sustain a relationship (and don't know about Blendr) should they also be denied? If you have a problem with violent forced repeated rape for money (which I imagine most normal people will) go after the animals who are involved in that, but leave consenting adults to do what they will with their bodies whether it involves money or not.

cordsm Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Personally, I find the Swedish policy very hard to > argue with....although understand both p.o.v. > > "In Sweden, it is understood that any society that > claims to defend principles of legal, political, > economic, > and social equality for women and girls must > reject the idea that women and children, > mostly girls, are commodities that can be bought, > sold, and sexually exploited by men. To > do otherwise is to allow that a separate class of > female human beings, especially women > and girls who are economically and racially > marginalized, is excluded from these > measures" If anyone is bought or sold, that's slavery. If a woman or a man offers a service for a price, that's employment. Why is offering a service using your hands, brain or any other part of your body, considered to be ok, but work involving genitals is fundamentally wrong? Economic necessity is why the majority of people work and I doubt anyone would be cleaning someone else's shit from toilets if they didn't have mouths to feed. So if a woman or a man chooses to work in this service industry, who are you to tell them they shouldn't? The revulsion is rooted in our history of male ownership of a women's sexuality. You were worthless if your father couldn't pass you onto your husband untouched. You are a slut if you sleep around, you are the opposite of what society expects a woman to be so you will be condemned and controlled, lest you infect the good girls with your loose ways and ownership of your own fanny. Whatever your view of the actual work, if the person is doing it from choice, who the hell are you to tell them they shouldn't?

Loz Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > But what is the alternative? Do we take this > tired, middle-class, Guardianesque > thinktheyknowitalls approach? > > "These poor women - look at them. They have no > other option in life but to prostitute > themselves." > "What should we do?" > "Ban prostitution!!" > > I understand why you are uncomfortable, but > really, all we can so is make it as safe as > possible and listen to the workers themselves and > what they want/need. Rosie, you didn't see my lips move did you, lol.

Yes I'm serious. What reason would you want to report them?

Why? Are they hurting anyone?

What I find funny about the women my age with kids my granddaughter's age, is that initially they seem to think I'm one of them and begin accept my into their cabal, but when they realise that I'm their age but have a 7 year old granddaughter, they recoil with the realisation that they nearly invited an 'imposter' in. Gets me every time. Getting back to the OP, I hope the new gardens has great coffee and huge amounts of space for buggies to encourage all the parents with small kids to go there instead of every pub, cafe and or restaurant in the area. I like kids, but not when they come in packs with parents who can't be arsed to control them because they think it's important that theirs are allowed to freely express themselves, even if that's running around a pub in circles, screaming.

Are you head of marketing?

Which school did Leon Brittan go to? Appears he was rampant at the Elm House Guest House (not surprising he lost the files).

Ps, I'm lumping all parents with primary age kids in the mummy-buggy-brigade, even though they no longer plough into people with bugaboos. It seems that these have been traded up for scooters, but my definition is wide.

With so many first sproggers round here in their 40's, many may well be, but even the ones in their 30's, I'd guess looked down on anyone who became a mum under the age of 20, before they had their little miracle (some probably still do). Something that indicates to me that there are still these prejudices in the current crop of mummy-buggy-brigade is when I'm out with my 7 year old granddaughter and someone who assumed she was my daughter is hardly able to hide the look of horror when I explain that she's my granddaughter. It's happened so often, I'm developing a barely controllable punch-them-in-the-mouth urge as soon as I spot them.

My problem with the mummy-buggy-brigade as they seem to have been named now, is that many of them remind me of the women who, 28 years ago sneered at me and made judgements because I was a young mother. There was no thought at that time, of making things easier for mother's with young children to stay socially involved in their communities. These women wanted untidy young children's issues kept out of their way. They had important things to do, such as make money to buy garbage they didn't need, but which let them know they'd arrived. Now that they have had kids, the same people who made no allowances for me or my contemporaries, appear to want everyone to notice how clever they are because they are now parents and their wants/wishes are expected to be catered for by everyone else. I don't really feel like catering for you or your kids. You didn't care about the mothers who came before you and the issues they faced. You need to stop acting like you are important just because you had a kid. This happens thousands of times every day to women all over the world. Stop shouting 'look at me' and just get on with it.

Nice bit of victim blaming there uncleglen.

I think it's beginning to be taken more seriously now. Don't forget it was pretty much accepted as a minor offence for men to have concensual sex with under age girls until fairly recently.

That's not necessarily true PT. There seem to be more female sexual abusers than is commonly imagined, but underage boys often see it as a positive thing so don't report it. There has been a lot with small kids in day care and other situations where women are carers. There seems to be quite a lot of mixed research, but this is quite a good analysis of this taboo area of the debate. http://www.ipt-forensics.com/library/female.htm

Although, some of them may have shagged and whipped in public school I guess. They were pretty evil places full of rapists and peodophiles, which may go some way to explaining why so many of the elite are so sick.

I very much doubt these guys were abused. Their prey were vulnerable kids in care who they picked out in peadophile shopping sprees. I doubt they were ever vulnerable in the same way.

Just looked at the Dell Outlet page and they only have more expensive ones at the moment. They have lots of deals, but you need to check what is availble. The desktops I got for the office ranged from ?250 to ?300 and really fast with a massive hard drive. Clicking on anything is almost instantaneous and start-up time is about a minute.