StraferJack

A brickie? Paying taxes all those years? ;-) But your points are well made and I agree with them in large part. The first part of that last paragraph in particular - everything HAS changed. But I think we need to have a bigger conversation than "these pensions have gone the way of the dodo, so so do those" Across all jobs, companies and governments (and by that I mean voters) are reacting to a changing world rather than looking to shape it. We are missing someone with a bigger vision. We will probably shoot that person with a bigger vision. Bad people will also see the gap in the market for that visionary person. But whilst we can't go with the status quo, I'm inclined to sympathise with people who cling to what they have whilst (seemingly) other people splash the cash like there is no tomorrow

That kestrel headline has been changed now. These days it's just HKP

Insults aside (and I don't think I have thrown any on this one?) there is actually a lot of debate happening. Saying it's a sacred cow effectively silences anyone who tries to defend the strike. That's stopping the debate more than anything else surely?

ach quids I was just trying to take the sting out of some of the anger (whilst I composed a longer reply) It was meant to be cheeky - that's not something you are unfamiliar with yourself I think?

More seriously, I tend to support Otta and that some deep breaths need to be taken On a fundamental level (ie before rancour set in) , I applaud ?????s determination to roll up sleeves and tackle the deficit. I don?t agree with him on the root causes but we are where we are, so there is little to be gained going over old ground I am in a broadly similar private-sector role as ????, and yet I don?t share his (and I apologise in advance if I use the wrong words) distaste for public-sector perks. I?m glad that there remains some barrier to a return to the days of mill-owners telling workers what to do on a whim I think DC overstates some of ?????s opinions on the public-sector ? I?ve NEVER read him saying workers in public sector are ?malingering idlers? for example , but it?s hard not to read almost any post from ???? about the public sector without seeing some kind of ticking off ? I paraphrase but ?we In the private sector are almost destitute while you in the public sector have it cushy thanks to the money you get from us? is a regular theme. It?s constant and niggling enough for me to understand why people might inflate the claim ? put it that way. Nor am I saying ???? is factually incorrect. But I often disagree with the conclusions from the same facts Eg - on the teacher thread in the family room we have ?Coming on top of the contributions taxpayers already make to Public Sector pensions an ongoing continous, rising and unsustainable commitnment, and given that most workers aren't public sector workers, and have thus far faced the bulk of redundancies, their companies going bust, reduced overtime/paid hours and and most of them have little to look forward to but working to 67 and then whatever the paltry state pension is after that (Final Salary pensions being realised as unrealistic by most private Sector employers about 15 years ago).... then some of us are less enamoured by PS Union cries of "Why us? We didn't cause it" . I think it's completley unproffesional and will let my kids teachers know.? If current T&Cs are no longer sustainable, then I don?t think the case is sufficiently well made. If banks can threaten to leave the country and everyonein the mire if they have to suffer a bit of pain in their trading T&C then I don?t really have a problem with workers threatening to withdraw labour for a couple of days and parents having to arrange childcare. And that isn?t me having a pop at banks ? just comparing the relative level of threat from differing parties The actuaries in the private sector who for years, despite advances in medicine and living standards, continued to sanction old pensions levels up until relatively recently in the private sector need to be scrutinised. How did they maintain that it was doable for so long? And how did it it go almost overnight from ?yep? to ?no way jose? If I was a teacher, I would find it easier to accept the changes in conditions if similar tough talking was aimed elsewhere. Yes we need banks and the finance sector to be here and firing on all cylinders but they could do that regardless of wether some of the propsed levies/taxes were implemented. They just threaten to leave because they can. By all means fear the result of them leaving ? but understand they are doing far more harm than a proposed strke by teachers in so doing

I don't think quids is getting enough credit for not using the phrase "money tree" so far in the debate

it definitely does - I used it that way at the weekend But I didn't have to put it on from scratch with a litte one excercising her democratic right to howl - good luck

hands up everyone who think Rosie "typed" all that and didn't use copy/paste? Anyone? bueller?

?Oise couldn?t give tew shoites about ?faaamlies? and dare kids. If peeple don?t loike it day can shag off somewhere else! Peeple LOOV Ryainair ? dat?s whoi day keep coomin back? Michael O Leary there, in an interview earlier today when asked to clarify his position* *legally it should be pointed out that that interview is satirical and not real. But if you think that might be his attitude then.. you know.. feel free to think of it as "representative"

To have a barely different thread title for a new game begs a little ribbing I would have thought? It's not that out of order or disrespectful? Certainly not on a forum But I wholeheartedly endorse RosieH's idea for some kind of playpen section where games like this can exist without intrusion from the likes of big bad *bob* and myself

Ms B come now, attime of writing in the Lounge I can see... I think jester has had a good run for the money on the original "game" no?

if you have uploaded it successfully I guess we can see the post and make sure you have done it ok? But I can't find one You aren't trying to do it in a PM are you? That won't work at all. Only in general posts

MM I thought with latest iOS updates (4.1 and above?) printing was now native and doesn't need an app? I have an HB printer which works fine without any extra app installation

most of those posts were a long time ago Susie - I wouldn't fret about it Although now the worry is this post will re-ignite some unnecessary west v east dulwich "thing"

aye

Wonderful... just wonderful Take a bow boys

Thank you Chair - I meant.. oh you know what I meant. Religion as a topic has been covered exhaustively on here before - and will be again no doubt. But I would like to think we can welcome someone first, allow them to bed in and see if they want to talk about it before we just bypass all civility

Another vote from me in the "OTT Huguenot" brigade If there is a place to debate the merits or otherwise of religion generally/specifically I'm not sure a thread like this is the place for it.

Stevet That is all

JB - pretty much agree with you there I would only add that I believe the imposition of privatisation on the rail and tube networks has been ideologically based and not a "what works" basis.

you say that like it's a bad thing?

I'll be taking an 8 month to end of the road festival in sept Not too worried about it. I've been several times before and seen many a pre-one year old sprite. Plus she loves music and is pretty chilled I may post again after the fact, a broken man but no dramas so far

Ahoy hoy Danny announced via twitter today be has been given the all clear. Combined with a whole day of him venting copiously about the bbc's decision to sell television centre it's been a joy God bless him @prodnose

Mr Ben No idea what you are talking about

I think Mrs Jack is looking to come along - but just saw the "it's opposite Swadesh" comment above - Radiant Bhuna will already know it's opposite Jaflong, next to Surma. If anyone goes opposite Swadesh they will have a dank and cold night outside a closed Moxon's