????

red devil Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ???? Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > and part of living in a democracy is to be able > > point out the pointlessness and stupidity of > such > > facile gestures on social media too :) > > Absolutely Quids. Back in the day the then ageing, > cynical 50-somethings probably thought the same > about the ANL/RAR marches/gigs. Remember > them?..;-) But they involved going along and in some cases actually meeting people who disagreed with you and were more likely to express that disagreement physically. Signing petitions piece of pointless piss. Calling someone a wanker for reading Bulldog at West ham in the 80s took a bit more balls.

and part of living in a democracy is to be able point out the pointlessness and stupidity of such facile gestures on social media too :)

rendelharris Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Yes, he said he didn't want dialogue with Trump > and so you called him a fascist. You, one > assumes, do want dialogue with Trump. I fail to > see how that's not you "shrieking Nazis at > anything which isn't our viewpoint." He said a bit more than that If so, no I do not want any > dialogue with Trump, his supporters or those who > cravenly submit to his will. He said a bit more than that

???? Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > well not having a dialogue with people you > disagree with me is pretty closed minded (and > anti-academic... no I'll change that to > intellectual)......you are living breathing proof > of the echo chamber and I claim my ?10. Your moral > certainty is shared by fascists & extremist the > world over and throughout history - i'm sure > you're not a flag waving jackbooted version though > but it's a scary thing to have such absolute > righteousness

Borky Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > tropespeak > > The unassailable and probably Manga Carta given > right to unashamedly take someone else's ideas > that you read somewhere, sometime, somehow and > then: > > a) lazily repackage it into an offering that fits > your preferred forum identity stance; > b) Go back to a) at every new opportunity Where did you cut and paste that from? :)

rendelharris Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Quids at 8.14: "we need to be realistic about what > that is rather than shrieking Nazis at anything > which isn't our viewpoint" > > Quids at 8.17 to someone who doesn't share his > viewpoint: "you're a fascist of sorts too you > know, like many who seem to think they have > enlightened opinions." > Touch of the old cognitive dissonance going on > there... Nice selectiveness there RH ( a bit of a MO of yours) . 8.17 was To someone unwilling to engage with people with a viewpoint they disagree with by their own admission

Seabag Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I think he should come, see the feelings of people > outside of his own bubble. > > We've had worse/as bad people here. It's part of > showing what a democratic country looks like. As > long as demonstrations are organised and peaceful, > and there no 'fake news' we'll be good. > > As for his safety, that'd be a challenge and > expensive, maybe he could borrow the Bullet Proof > Pope Mobile. Reagan came in similar circumstances at the height of Greenham Common/Cruise protests - so agree

:)

I'm signing it -couldn't agree more Louisa Where were these petitions for Chinese President State visit? Israeli Citizens exclusion from 16 or so other countries etc.

I didn't read this from the top - speaking to the OP but making a general point. You then came in guns blazing and i explained why i Posted. This isn't about you, you can relax.

well not having a dialogue with people you disagree with me is pretty closed minded (and anti-academic... no I'll change that to intellectual)......you are living breathing proof of the echo chamber and I claim my ?10. Your moral certainty is shared by fascists & extremist the world over and throughout history - i'm sure you're not a flag waving jackbooted version though but it's a scary thing to have such absolute righteousness

could have got 40 million after the Euros.....

Ok start another thread on Trump yo, we can have 10 on the front page - it's just some basic forum etiquette

jaywalker Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ???? Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Shouting Trump Out is not political discourse; > and > > a completely subjective observation is that > most > > people who go on marches of this sort aren't > > really up for discourse anyway, or only a > > discourse within their comfort/political > zone..... > > strikes me your not that much one for discourse > > either to be honest. > > > > U/C on the internet is well known, among us > plebs > > anyway, of being indicative of shouting, which > was > > my point, as I'm sure most people realised > before > > your academic deconstruction.... > > I guess you mean 'dialogue' rather than > 'discourse' here. If so, no I do not want any > dialogue with Trump, his supporters or those who > cravenly submit to his will. The pleasures of > hand-holding aside, what would be the reason for > doing so? There speaks an open minded academic..........you're a fascist of sorts too you know, like many who seem to think they have enlightened opinions.

Bumpkin Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Ok ????, but what do you suggest people do? It's > a serious question as I'm very concerned about the > direction that Trump and the impact of Brexit is > taking us and would like to do something positive > to offset these events rather than just moan to my > friends and carry on with my nice little life. > Signing petitions and going on marches can be > sneered at as a 'look at me' or disregarded as of > no ultimate impact, but is it better to just carry > on with your day job feeling frustrated about the > events unfolding around us? I don't honestly > know. I'm not able to give up my job and start > doing anything amazing but don't want to just be a > miserable spectator. Advice welcome.. Ok Bumpkin - firstly read plenty of contrary views and opinions then perhaps you won't panic as much (this is especially true for Brexit i've found) - social media is a horrible magnifier of echo Chamber stuff much of it false, misquoted, out of context etc. I've long read the New Statesman & the Spectator for some at least reasonably well argued and based on fact different points of view (so you obviously avoid the Daily Mail and The Canary on the same basis.) The polarisation into extreme viewpoints that Social media encourages and magnifies is terrible - i personally don't think we are tiptoeing into fascism - there has been a profound political shift globally away from something we've had but we need to be realistic about what that is rather than shrieking Nazis at anything which isn't our viewpoint.That's been part of the problem. - I voted remain and would rather Clinton (deeply uninspiring as she was) was POTUS - but am moving on with these democratic decisions constructively, good for your peace of mind too.

No - of course it's significant but we don't need 5 threads* do we? Somewhat self indulgent and not very utilitarian if everyone starts saying I NEED MY OWN THREAD ON TRUMP NOW! (caps again, especially for you). * see also Brexit

I'm going to go along out of nostalgia but like seeing the Happy Mondays a couple of years ago I think it'll disappoint - that's the general view of the reviews i've read. Still looking forward to it though. Read the book just after it was published so was a bit snotty about the sudden rise of Welsh and Train spotting when the film came out. Welsh is of course a solid West Ham fan (goes quite a lot) and the ICF feature in one of his sequels (none of which i've rated to be honest)

Shouting Trump Out is not political discourse; and a completely subjective observation is that most people who go on marches of this sort aren't really up for discourse anyway, or only a discourse within their comfort/political zone..... strikes me your not that much one for discourse either to be honest. U/C on the internet is well known, among us plebs anyway, of being indicative of shouting, which was my point, as I'm sure most people realised before your academic deconstruction....

Knickerwetters for the increasingly hysterical metropolitan middle classes of social media - is my new favourite

There's 5 other threads on Trumpincluding one on this petition already FFS everyone..........DON"T PANIC< DON'T PANIC

AREN'T I VIRTOUS LOOK AT ME.........back in the real world nothing achieved. People protesting when the Chinese President came over 2 years ago? A mere handful - a torrent of mass knickerwetting

I think you'll find that it was St Obama who sold arms to the Saudi's at record levels - you need to isolate which particular thing is angering you the most - Trump, May, Brexit, the English, the EDF; there are plenty of candidates -and make some coherent points about it...

jaywalker Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- >t as clear a warning of the > looming economic cliff edge as one could hope to > see. The "hope" says it all about what a miserablist you are! Orwell had a lovely descriptor of "intellectuals" dressing their own prejudices up as fact behind a veneer of pseudo-academic language. I'm going to look it up - it suits you and a couple of others on this forum.

yup

Antionio from Forest for ?6m reckon we'd get 25-30 for him now