????

...that didn't take long

I think you'll find that's McDonalds BBW.....pinhead

Beaten and bettered - as witnessed by grasping at spelling ...the last resort of the defeated.

....and is Dulwich Park in east Dulwich...er....nope Pinhead...isn't that the term for someone who dooesn't know their geography BBW?

The CAPS post addressed to Sean the We to you I've been consistently talking PS if that's off topic then so be it- i'm bot starting a new thread

Finally for now, as i'm off out, my use of WE All as in taxpayers was deliberately inclusive...but you seem to have missed this Anna

Once again..... PUBLIC-SECTOR DOESN'T=NHS NHS WORKERS AREN'T ALL NURSES AND PORTERS LIFTING BEDS if we could get beyond these emotive positions we could discuss this... but these positions are taken up whenever the PS is questioned; in politics, the media on here etc the whole thing is a sacred cow

Sooo puting away ?600 a month on average for 40 years is just a matter of making some adjustments to your eating out habits......laughable. Seriously, if the public sector pension is such a poor deal scrap it and come abd join us putting aside ?600 a month

i'll have to look at my conract, from memory it's 2 weeks continous on basic, then half pay and then on statutory - exclusion from bonuses, overtime (if i was so lucky). It's not great fella....i expect your mob is more generous

annaj Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ps what is says in the Telegraph article is true, > but they've taken it rather out of context. > Doctors are paid a basic salary plus a banding > supplement that reflects the total hours worked > and antisocial hours. Each job is banded and the > supplement recieved is based on the band of the > job. It's a fixed and guaranteed supplement. If a > doctor is off sick they are paid their full salary > based on the basic and the banding supplement, > which I think is reasonable because that is the > salary the doctor is used to living on and ongoing > expenses, like mortgages, will be based on it and > will still have to be paid. > > Nurse pay works differently, as I understand it, > the antisocial hours supplement varies monthly > depending on how many antisocial hours are worked. > So when someone is sick they are paid an avaerage > of the last three months, because that probably > represents a normal month. > > I actually don't think that's unreasonable or > scandalous. It may not be, but we don't get it and yours is paid for by all of us - what makes you unique? shift work, overtime and financial commitments are for all of us and not just NHS workers!...now go and look at what eqivalent statuory sickness pay we in the private sector get. This is a real incentive to get well and back to work to earn your proper money....if this was replaced with your deal, i expect we'd see an increase in private sector sickness as, financially, there is no incentive to do get back to work.

Macroban - i was taking ?30,000 as an arbitary amount using ?500,000 as the starting point as an example of an unachievamle pot for all but mega earners- it is also one that probably nearer on the whole to sort of level of nice middle class SE22 pensioners would be hoping for and will be a pension probably well within the reach of middle level management and grades within the public sector, of which there are 1000s but almost unatainable by anyone in equivalent positions in the private. In fact the median earnings in the private sector aren't hugely different and huge swathes of private sector workers have no pension provision at all. Of course doctors and consultants, high grade civi servants, senior council staff, high ranking officers etc are on 3/4 final salary pensions that we can only dream of In terms of 'lazy' and sloppy journalism - she quotes the facts, as Anna backs up, and then some direct quotes from some Private sector bodies which you may or may mot disgree with - deep analyis, no, but I don't see why it's sloppy or lazy, other than you don't like it. It is difficult arguing numbers with someone who just shouts 'false' and, from memory, doesn't believe there was a recession in the early 1990s

Thanks all, intereting points worthy of a thought out response (and not necessarily disagreement) rather than my sleepy head at midnight - genuinely going off to bed now so will reply tomorrow at some point. Night night.

but if the mile's reduced to a kilometre it's less of an achievement

more right wing vested interest propaganda no doubt... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6066181/NHS-staff-paid-overtime-when-off-sick.html

Keef - a pension pot of ?100,000 buys you an annuity of about ?6,000 at the moment. So to even have a pension of say ?30,000 pa, not a huge amount to run a car, go on holiday, travel and live on will require a private pension holder to have accumulated a pot of ?500,000! Now, let's compare that to a pension of a copper, NHS worker, er MP, etc etc

Macroban - Why a vested interest? Plus All the big employers in the private sector (who are more directly comparable to the Public Sector) have rigourous record keeping on sickness/absenteeism. And if you think you small companies - let alone the self-employed - are relaxed about employee sickness then you must inhabit a very different world to me. Sorry - the Public Sector is a sacred cow and still unimpeachable to practically everyone who works in it (turkeys and Christmas etc) and many who don't as this thread is demonstrating

Anna - I am talking PUBLIC SECTOR please read my posts and not get stuck on the OP and your emotional defense of the NHS. Besides which what part of my last post is dismissive? It has to to be explained by one of those three surely? WE, all of us, are never going to get any sensible debate on this with the massively defensive default position taken up by practically anyone who works in the public sector to any questioning about funding, pay, performance, pensions, etc...

Well, statistically it's odd then, so either it's 1) PS work is more adverse to your well being healthwise 2) The PS attracts people who are more likely to be sick or....3) It's 'skiving'

The thought of wolfie up there on that hill with a bow and arrow and his stalking binoculars is making me think of building one of those 'peace wall' anti-missile fences on the Forest Hill facing side of my property

Come on Anna, it's not finger pointing and generalisation, the facts do show on a consistent basis by lots of different measurements that public sector workers on average take significantly more sickness than private sector workers - we do appreciate that many in the PS are genuinely more altruistic and caring but we in the private sector are allowed to question this surely? Do you not think that there are not numerous jobs in the private sector which are hugely stressfull, involve exposure to risk and involve heavy manual labour too? You may be correct vis-a-vis private healthcare, but that's a red herring...in fact overall Public Sector Versus Private Sector absenteesim came out at 55% more sickdays in 2007 for instance...now that's more headline grabbing. I think MrB was being deliberately over provocative in his delivery but nevertheless there is a lot of truth behind what he says - I'm sure you do a f*cking good job - far more meaningful than mine, for sure - and work extremely hard - But the public sector and indeed the NHS shouldn't be sacred cows and all of us have a right to question and make sure we are getting value. For instance, do you really think a local governemnt officer with a nice pension and relatively normalised hours taking 55% more sick leave than a private sector worker sounds right?

Brum, so that's all alright then? - you sound scarily like Gordon Brown. So why still such a sigbificant gap in sickness accross all the public sector compared to the private sector? Added to that the better job security and copper bottomed guaranteed final salary pensions and perhaps you can see why we in the private sector are asking these questions especialy when much of the increased 'investment' in the public sector over the last ten years is accouned for by a significabt increase in pay. Sorry, I don't feel assured.

The Bottle -Gil Scot Heron

jah, it's my little girl's birthday so unlikely to make it but may be able to sneak out with my brother-in-law for a swifty at lunch and the CPT is my nearest

Have you taken the wrappers off yet Mick?

Cole hatrick, Noble brace, Defoe hatrick of own goals before being sent off for owning a RangeRover.......now, lets tot that upn.... um.....er.....I believe that's 8