SeanMacGabhann

Oops cross-post Is the rest of the EU becoming more sceptical at a citizen level? Not in my experience. I'll go further and say that I know a few sceptics in EU countries who seem to be rather pleased they are in the tent now as for you saying "perhaps insularity, immaturity or arrogance agreed but it's a fact and one that makes the whole thing look unworkable in the long term".. I'm not saying those are your views but if they are the views of the UK population for those reasons why can't they be challenged? Those are not a great set of attributes.. most people dealing with an adult with those characteristics would be told by their peers to grow up...

Oops cross-post Is the rest of the EU becoming more sceptical at a citizen level? Not in my experience. I'll go further and say that I know a few sceptics in EU countries who seem to be rather pleased they are in the tent now as for you saying "perhaps insularity, immaturity or arrogance agreed but it's a fact and one that makes the whole thing look unworkable in the long term".. I'm not saying those are your views but if they are the views of the UK population for those reasons why can't they be challenged? Those are not a great set of attributes.. most people dealing with an adult with those characteristics would be told by their peers to grow up...

To put it another way, given that other EU countries make this thing work, it makes the citizens of this country look, not disenfranchised, alienated or understandably open to extremism - it just makes them look belligerent and arrogant and a bit mad What the UK actually does want isn't very clear to me

To put it another way, given that other EU countries make this thing work, it makes the citizens of this country look, not disenfranchised, alienated or understandably open to extremism - it just makes them look belligerent and arrogant and a bit mad What the UK actually does want isn't very clear to me

But why are the people of THIS country alienated when the people of other EU countries aren't? I genuinely don't understand that bit and would love someone to explain it to me?

But why are the people of THIS country alienated when the people of other EU countries aren't? I genuinely don't understand that bit and would love someone to explain it to me?

Is sovereignty that important to you - and why? Do you not think sovereignty was forfeited after the second world war and the subsequent debt to the US and allegiance to it's policies? Which EU laws specifically worry you ? MEPs more powerful than UK MPs? Why it seems like only yesterday that this country would have happily burned all of the UK MPS at the stake. And most EU countries seem to manage just fine within the EU Speaking of other EU countries - Ireland wasn't bullied into ratifying the treaty. Broken down, Ireland basically used the first referendum to kick the incumbent government on domestic policies. The EU laughed and said "ah now lads that was funny but do you want to do this properly?" and they did If you think the US states are homogenous I would only be able to think you don't know it very well - just the North/South divide ALONE is still raw, but individual states take their characteristics very very seriously indeed. And if Europe was basically 19th century feudal, the impact of closer ties since the 2 resultant world wards would suggest that, when acting like grown ups and co-operating, much can be done to remedy that

Is sovereignty that important to you - and why? Do you not think sovereignty was forfeited after the second world war and the subsequent debt to the US and allegiance to it's policies? Which EU laws specifically worry you ? MEPs more powerful than UK MPs? Why it seems like only yesterday that this country would have happily burned all of the UK MPS at the stake. And most EU countries seem to manage just fine within the EU Speaking of other EU countries - Ireland wasn't bullied into ratifying the treaty. Broken down, Ireland basically used the first referendum to kick the incumbent government on domestic policies. The EU laughed and said "ah now lads that was funny but do you want to do this properly?" and they did If you think the US states are homogenous I would only be able to think you don't know it very well - just the North/South divide ALONE is still raw, but individual states take their characteristics very very seriously indeed. And if Europe was basically 19th century feudal, the impact of closer ties since the 2 resultant world wards would suggest that, when acting like grown ups and co-operating, much can be done to remedy that

Well, when you find yourself typing sentences like "I was under a plasma TV sort of behind a pot plant, on the left wall of the main room as you look at the big screen. " things have come to a pretty pass But I would have been very visible to you from that position so..

Well, when you find yourself typing sentences like "I was under a plasma TV sort of behind a pot plant, on the left wall of the main room as you look at the big screen. " things have come to a pretty pass But I would have been very visible to you from that position so..

LadyMuck - Yep I know what you were responding to - but I responded to that post by quids and he responded to me with the quote I used. So I used that to point out there was, not a withdrawal, but like I said, a major qualification

LadyMuck - Yep I know what you were responding to - but I responded to that post by quids and he responded to me with the quote I used. So I used that to point out there was, not a withdrawal, but like I said, a major qualification

Add me to the list of people keen to know more about it too - what time is it in Singapore?

Add me to the list of people keen to know more about it too - what time is it in Singapore?

I was sure you were going to mark this one down for being obvious? 5/10 I would have thought. At best

I was sure you were going to mark this one down for being obvious? 5/10 I would have thought. At best

QUIDS: "He is. I apologise, I'm sure Hugenot has been warned about stuff. My vitriol was largely in response to Hugenot's but contains some truths too - spoilt by my spleen." Not a withdrawal but certainly a stonking qualification

QUIDS: "He is. I apologise, I'm sure Hugenot has been warned about stuff. My vitriol was largely in response to Hugenot's but contains some truths too - spoilt by my spleen." Not a withdrawal but certainly a stonking qualification

no, by the time I left them to it shortly after the game, quids and mockney were far too busy putting the world to rights to engage with strangers But do say hello next time won't you, you wee scamp

no, by the time I left them to it shortly after the game, quids and mockney were far too busy putting the world to rights to engage with strangers But do say hello next time won't you, you wee scamp

but seeing as he basically withdrew it 2 minutes later Ladymuck, does it still count? Michael's post was pretty good tho - he should do it more often ;-)

but seeing as he basically withdrew it 2 minutes later Ladymuck, does it still count? Michael's post was pretty good tho - he should do it more often ;-)

If a contingent comprises quids, mockney and me, plus a pre-match cameo from Annaj then yes there was a contingent.

If a contingent comprises quids, mockney and me, plus a pre-match cameo from Annaj then yes there was a contingent.

I'd swear quids said that in the same way that Voronin would after the ball stopped dead in front of an empty net and he scores the winner in Big Cup final - "I can't believe that was just left there!!!" Anyway I thought you were dying sick