SeanMacGabhann

It is very odd to think that after changing leaders so many times since 97 that the tories seem as far away from electability as ever. If polls are closing then it has more to do with labour-fatigue than anything At least when labour were cast into the wilderness there was a sense over the ensuing years of progress being made as they moved from Kinnock to Smith and then (did we know? I think we did) Blair But then having lived in rural Devon (which was the most shockingly conservative - in the worst way possible - place I had ever been) I know just how poisonous the tory grass roots actually is. Britain has moved on and DC may be of it but he has to get some damnably unpleasant people behind him and if he's not up to the job, well, that may speak well of him

* coughs * speak for yourself MW - some of mine are bang up to date

I don't mean to say parts of it aren't grubby - what I object to is seeing that as negative. It's comfortable! True about the wine tho

I object to dismissing teh CPT as grubby! TO answer Georgias question - my answer remains teh same unfortunately. At best, a maybe

it definitely wasn't a walkabout when I was there. I did have to get past security but they never stopped me. The walkabout is on Embankement - it used to be Shoeless Joes - that ain't the place I'm talking about Could be the Grande Marque - EC4Y 9BT - certainly the location I am talking about

Well, I call it a student bar because that's what it feels like. Can't remember the name. Walk up from Embankement and it's on the left... Only open until 9ish as I recall (and it has been about 3 years since last I went)

I have been know to frequent the strange student bar in middle Temple, which allows pretty secluded drinking in the gardens and cheap games of pool

Your language of late has gone right down the pan young lady ;-)

I remember reading this at the time. And Newman is a good example of someone who has shifted his own life quite significantly compared to his Wembley filling days But I suspect you are rights Asset - the consensus to do something won't form until it's too late

I'm in denial about it but I suspect it's true Keef Administrator: A top 10 table of # days registered/#posts when you get a mo

The system might indeed rely on those qualities - but the things that genuinely enrich our lives (and not just the money which greases the wheels) tend not to be generated by the system. Worse they can be flattened by it Posting about relative merits of caffeine based drinks is not a sign of champagne-soci-alism. I believe they do it in Norway even! You have a bee in your bonnet about the Guardian today don't you. Although there may be some truth in your statement about it's hang-ups in relation to the Mail. The difference being (as you KNOW) that having a pop at executive pay is, at most, going to affect a very small number of, and already very privileged, individuals (however hard they may have worked). And by affect I mean, not at all The Mail's hysteria about immigration on the other hand, has a very real consequence for a lot of people who have already had a fair bit to deal with in life

People don't forget that Enron was a successful company - but they are entitle to make the obvious point that so many hard-working people were thrown out of work was because of the greed and arrogance of the senior employees - which is exactly what we are talking about

I know Alan likes a good debate and I should know better - but: "Intellectual superiority and economic inferiority often go hand in hand" Based on what analysis and study? Is it aimed at anyone on here? "Whilst this debate is of some merit, the ultimate pull the rug out question for those who moan about the city bonuses is 'what would you do about it?' invariably their answers would cripple the economy and spoil the party for everyone" It may be the ultimate question but it would be rash to try and answer it without making the journey first. The first question being "Is everything hunky dory or is there anything we might want to address in this world of ours?" If we see people suffering genuine hardship is there nothing we want to do? Is sharing resources that difficult for people? Business always complains that any new rules would cripple it (and did so back in the slave days.... bless em) "It's a tough life lesson. Some people are more able, others are more priveleged and lots work harder. If you have a specific gripe about your own situation then I expect it can be addressed. If you are just expressing an empathy for a disenfrachised underclass then don't bother - they wouldn't extend you the same courtesy." Oooh look - another generalisation. Says who Alan? History shows the progress made by mankind when it co-operates rather than competes. And looking for gratitude isn't th eorder of the day in any case. "The wealth gap problem is one created and propagated because no one is poor enough to worry about any more. If the price of making everyone rich enough to feed and clothe themselves is that a few people appear to be ludicrously wealthy then so be it." "noone" is poor enough? sheesh. Poverty doesn't begin and end at clothes and food (although that was the case for most of our history) It doesn't take the worlds most bleeding heart to sit in an office at 6pm when the cleaners come in, speak to them, realise that most of them are doing several different jobs, for perfectly "repectable" agencies who try and dock every single penny they can for the most petty reasons (toiletbreaks etc) . Pennies that make a difference to their lives. The 6 and 7 figure earners at the top can indulge as much times as they want and not suffer a penny deduction - and think "hang on - something's not right here". "We've never had it so good." By which you mean - let them eat cake I assume and finally: "until something better is found" Ain't noone going to stumble upon it. The money floats to the top by aggression. If a better way was found it would be ruthlessly stamped out to protect the interests of those concerned. Rights are never granted they are always fought for

loathe tho I am to defend Norman Tebbit (to whom you refer I believe, James) he never did say that, What he said was "I grew up in the 1930s with an unemployed father. He did not riot. He got on his bike and looked for work, and he went on looking until he found it" which might suggest it but he didn't tell people to get on their bikes

Walking is very stress-relieving. By the time you get to these lights you'e nearly home anyway. Hop off a stop earlier adn you will avoid the problem, get that little bit fitter and be less stressed (I'm not saying the traffic lights shouldn't be re-phased - just offering practical solutions. ) I know people can say "well why should I just because..." etc and that may be true but it's not going to help. Walking helps. Trust me

I played rugby for a couple of years but it never got me. I'll be rooting for Ireland in the world cup but I don't often put aside time to watch a whole game I fairly certain that it won't be England picking up the trophy tho.

They have their defenders

I'll be checking it out (all too predictably I know) - thanks for the update Dave

Thanks for the update - and now we have an invite (or a come hither at least) I'm so there

with apologies to James for using the same quote from Jeremy: "As for the wealth gap... times are changing, these banking jobs are now within the reach of most graduates if they have the inclination, intelligence and willpower. The opportunities are out there for almost anyone." Again, this misses the point. Even (nay, even especially) if everyone DID want to become a city trader there are only so many available positions. So those that don't get the jobs have to look elsewehere and so on and on. Anyone can do anything but not everyone can do everything - so how do we look after those that don't make the top positions. There was a time when a teacher or nurse was a relatively good job but if we just laugh at them and say "you have a degree you COULD earn a lot more money" it's not really going to help is it Excellent post from Mockney which illustrates the fact that a little humilty would go a long way And of course we are faced with the hilarious situation this week whre, having earned all of these billions, banks are now pleading to the outside sources for help. Bloody scroungers

well there is that, yes... ;-)

Jah, if you stopped all the people on here who played games from coming to the next drink up it would be you and.....

Ah but sure we're all partial to a bit of a whinge once in a while are we not spadetownboy? I could, for example, complain about how some people never take the time to create proper sentences with Capital Letters etc ;-) You've been around this place long enough to have come across Dave Mc before and he doesn't strike me as an inveterate moaner so I would cut him some slack on this one. Although your basic point "people whinging about this that and the other and that everything that happens is someone elses fault except theirs", on a general level, is one of my pet peeves too. But I don't think it applies in this case

They will inhereit the earth Alan ... ;-) (no wait, that's the meek isn't it.. darn it)

now, even I am not going to rise to that!