JohnL

nina_maniana Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Sue - i think there?s a difference between being > packed on a tube for the commute and spending all > day in a crowded office versus meeting a friend > for lunch and avoiding unnecessary contact? > > I understand why the government would want places > closed but for my own peace of mind i would > definitely be comfortable with going to some > social spaces. > > My question was more, based on the government?s > loose form of words around closures whether > businesses would tend to stay open pending a > formal edict by which they could actually claim > insurance? They are saying complete isolation at some point - not yet. You could go to a pub or restaurant at the moment and it may well be pretty empty (if they stay open) but in a short while they will be closed I think. I think a walk may still be OK - and maybe something will be arranged. Other than that expand your social and video media to have virtual breaks with friends if you're lucky enough to have them.

gromit3:16 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The communinity is not coming together, everyone > out for themselves in all the supermarkets, > teenagers couldn't care less about whats going on > so long as they have their Netflix. Ronald Reagan once said imagine if we get invaded by aliens and how everyone would pull together Well it's the closest we've come since and some are and some aren't. Although I do watch netflix and am not a teen :)

That could be 12 months down the line it seems. I can only think of temporarily changing the business model for instance selling "delivery".

gromit3:16 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > this non stop media coverage is too much, people > are going to be having panic and heart attacks > because of it. > > I've had to switch off lbc as it is non stop > coverage of what is or is not going to happen. > it's getting too much now. Netflix has no coverage :)

This is the quote - I'll check how many drunk students are out tonight (from my balcony) :) "Now is the time for everyone to stop non-essential contact with others and to stop all unnecessary travel. We need people to start working from home where they possibly can. And you should avoid pubs, clubs, theatres and other such social venues."

Any panic buying of beer or wine reported yet. I was looking at ordering in from Majestic Wine.

seenbeen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > JohnL wrote > 'Strangely the immune system may need to be > suppressed somewhat it seems in these articles'. > > So the drug Tocilizumab prevents the cytokine > storms- the '-mab' part means 'monoclonal > antibody' and there are various drugs like this > and one, 'Infliximab' is used to treat Crohn's and > UC. But it works on a different receptor on the > cell but prevents a specific chemical in the body > from attacking its own cells. Some aspects of the > immune system is suppressed in people with > auto-immune conditions like rheumatoid arthritis. > > Paracetomol reduces pain and fever but is not an > anti-inflammatory, the anti-inflammatories > interfere with the immune response and you really > do need an immune response to deal with an > infection It takes Doctors a while to realise whats going on and how to treat different aspects I guess. Some of it might appear contradictory to us laymen.

DulwichFox Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > Most of the Pasta is on the Floor. Oh dear - that's some idiot then - mainly joking with the Waitrose comment but you never know these days.

DulwichFox Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Just come back from The Co-op.. > > Lots of Tinned Tomatoes. Big and Small tins. > > Shelf FULL of Dried Pasta.. > Unfortunately some A**ehole has SLASHED every > single bag. > > What do we do with someone who does that?? > > Whould THAT type of Person last 3 Months in > prison. > > If They did that in China or North Korea, they > would spend the next 10 - 20 years doing Hard > Labour. > > DulwichFox Waitrose are doing bring your own container for loose pasta Maybe this is the Lordship Lane Co-Op version of that :)

jonnywalker Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > This madness is everywhere but seems to be worse > around here than many places. Popped to see my 80 > year old mother in Essex today and the local > Tesco's was fairly well stocked. They had brought > measures in to limit the amount people were > buying. Only 1x loaf of bread, 1x pain killers, 1x > loo roll, 1x UHT milk and x3 packs of rice per > person. Sainsburys DKH has been suffering with > stock for a few weeks now, you'd expect this to be > controlled. FYI if you want Loo roll or pain > killers a tip is petrol stations the morons > haven't thought of going there yet You seriously begin to question if they are right and we are wrong sometimes although food shops will remain open (I can't believe otherwise) and people who can't get to shops will be helped. I've heard of worries for over 70s suffering neglect - we can't allow that to happen.

Although can't find the link to NSID's only this saying the Cork story isn't true - there is advice in France and Ireland to prefer Paracetamol https://www.thejournal.ie/ibuprofen-cuh-coronavirus-whatsapp-5047311-Mar2020/

seenbeen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Alan Medic Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > This is important but I don't believe it's common > > knowledge. I know that two younger people died in > > France possibly because of this. It's worth being > > aware of. > > > > The head of infectious disease in Cork University > > hospital has released a statement to doctors. > > They have 4 young people in serious condition from > > COVID19. None have underlying conditions. All were > > taking non/steroidal anti inflammatory drugs. > > France has issued a similar advisory. Many > > players take anti-inflammatories for injuries. > > They are what I mostly prescribe for rugby > > related injuries. They include difene, neurofen > > (ibuprofen) and vimovo. There are many others. > > All players should stop taking these drugs > > immediately and not take them for the duration of the > > COVID19 crisis. There is significant evidence that > > they exacerbate COVID19. > > Dr. Tim > > My son and I were talking about this as we know > people on all kinds of anti-inflammatories for > crohn's and ulcerative colitis and it occurred to > me that they all interfere with the immune > response, as do steroids. What about people who > take 75mg of aspirin daily? Aspirin is also a > nsaid. Cytokine storms are what made Spanish Flu a killer amongst the young and now being identified here - as a "wrong" immune system rather than an over powerful one - and the immune response won't stop. https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2020/03/the-coronavirus-turns-deadly-when-it-leads-to-cytokine-storm-identifying-this-immune-response-is-key-to-patients-survival-report.html https://inews.co.uk/news/health/existing-drugs-may-have-key-role-to-play-coronavirus-treatment-2451370 Strangely the immune system may need to be suppressed somewhat it seems in these articles.

teddyboy23 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Te44 google flu deaths 2019. Is there a definitive source - the one I posted earlier says usually it's only 600 in the UK but rose to 10,000 in the last epidemic in 2008-9 and can go higher https://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vk/influenza-flu

singalto Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > JohnL, Charter has a dedicated police officer but > he doesn?t follow children into Sainsbury?s... LOL - thats what happens when your experience is TV shows (no experience of schools whatsoever)

Talk of older people being advised to stay at home from this week. There are support networks offering to buy them stuff and deliver (will this be counted as bulk buy - should they get some kind of special dispensation).

Tesco (Rye Lane) Most shelves full - but no pasta at all, no toilet rolls. A bottle of wine broke on me for the first time in my life - but they replaced it :)

Does what this Dr say about vulnerable people cheer you up or worry you - not sure. Is he saying all the treatments we have won't be enough for you. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-intensive-care-doctor-letter-matt-morgan-a4387326.html

The vulnerable must be feeling bad - we used to operate systems like the below but not make it so public (we probably still have to some extent). But not treating patients - we at least used to say we will turn them over to a specialist group to ease their suffering - the impression we are giving here is you're on the street. At least provide morphine or something. https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/14/severely-coronavirus-patients-might-not-get-treated-nhs-goes-war-footing-12396604/ Apparently when this happened years ago patients and relatives just weren't told.

"The Times reported the laws could also give police and immigration officers to detain people if they are suspected of being infected and the ability to direct schools to stay open. The newspaper said the laws could remain in place for two years." Don't Cough.

WHO is questioning UK's plans now. It's the herd immunity thing that is the issue as there is no proper proof. https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/coronavirus-uk-scientists-question-government-policy-on-herd-immunity/13/03/ I haven't yet read Prof Costello's twitter thread.

In the US (TV shows anyway) the schools have an attached police officer who deals with child incidents.

ryelane Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If you're on Facebook there are plans for mutual > aid groups for each borough: > > https://www.facebook.com/groups/833177740485170/ Joined and the linked whatsapp group

Paulo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > DulwichFox Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I am surprised no one is blaming Brexit for the > > empty ??? shelves, > > Yes good old Brexit, oh how we laughed... I still heard the other day "we'll make our own vaccine"

I'm just trying to work out what the government and it's scientists are thinking - and as they said 5-10K people have contracted (=recovered?) in the UK maybe it thinks the mortality is much much less (a dangerous assumption). We may never know their thinking though - I hope they didn't just say "sod them"

dbboy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If the expectation is that 300,000 will die from > the virus from a population of some 66,000,000, > then they are expecting a conservative mortality > rate 0.5% of the population, I suppose that is > "their" worst case scenario, if you then double > that to get a more accurate figure, that makes > this really scary. > > As Boris said, "many families will lose loved > one's before their time". Well isn't that ironic > with the health minister and probably other > cabinet ministers being infected, including Boris, > remind me who's next in the chain of command? Step > up Larry "the" Cat The last flu pandemic was estimated to have 13,000 deaths. https://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vk/influenza-flu But looking at these numbers (tell me if I'm wrong) they have guesstimated that 5,000 to 10,000 people have contracted this virus - no idea how many are recovered or may fall further ill but lets take the most optimistic possibility of 10,000 recovered and 10 dead (0.1 mortality). If 35 million contract the virus at the same rate then projected deaths == 35,000 (3x the last flu pandemic) so maybe they feel that's acceptable ? Of course that's optimistic and we may run out of ventilators and beds and have to prioritise care and also their figured of 10,000 current cases may be completely wrong or some of those may die.