Domitianus

Leonard Cohen - I am always amazed at how people dismiss him as some suicide-inducing gloom-monger. There are many artistes whose music is much more dreary and yet never receive the same label. He has been around for ages and is still producing utterly jaw-dropping stuff. Neil Hannon as well.

ChavWivaLawDegree Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Sorry it's not on tonight. They recored 2 > episodes, and the one I was on is next week > Tuesday at 11pm. > > Dom - come and join me at the next debate!!! Only if you debrief, I mean brief me beforehand, or do I mean debrief?

Tell you what, let's ban cockle-picking and strawberry picking as well. After all, there are hundreds of people smuggled into the country who are involved in those industries as well, and who are living in cramped conditions and working for a pittance and who have their passports confiscated and who are threatened with violence as well (them and their families back home) and the female members of which are prolly sexually molested from time to time just for good measure. And if the worst comes to the worst, they send you out into Morecombe Bay at night where there is a good chance you will drown. If that isn't a good reason for banning (or at least marginalising) cockle-picking I don't know what is! Of course, it's obvious, banning cockle-picking would be the very way to prevent that type of exploitation!!!!

Another real-life example comes to mind. I am vaguely acquainted with a girl who makes porn movies, a very attractive and pleasant young lady indeed. Her previous job - she was a financial advisor (pretty d**n respectable, huh?) When I have spoken to her about her career change she has told me that the job in which she felt harassed, exploited and manipulated was her FP job. She still remembers what she had to put up with there (often with little prospect of financial reward) with considerable anger. In her current work, she earns about ?300 a scene, doing something she pretty much enjoys doing and she does it when she wants to and with who she wants to. The hilarity with which she greets the notion that she is being exploited is something to behold. On the contrary she feels she has more control over her life and body than she ever did and would not change what she does for the world.

RosieH Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Domitianus Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > ... prostitution nonetheless is a profession that > can often allow a woman control of what she does > and allow her to have real financial freedom... > The main thing that prevents prostitutes more > widely achieving these standards is punitive > legislation and social stigmatisation. > > really??? tell that to any of the estimated 10,000 > women trafficked to this country and living in > slavery, that it's only nimbyism stopping them > achieving real financial freedom. while they're > beaten, raped and forced to have sex with > strangers 20, 30 times a day, have their passport > taken away, and make not a penny, except for the > rich c*nt who shipped them over here. > > Chav may well have had an overwhelmingly positive, > empowering, experience, and I applaud her for > that: if it allowed her to take control of her > life then brilliant. But it's very very far from > being the case for every woman (increased > likelihood of addiction, rape, violence, murder > anyone?) > > Domitianus, your comment about hair dressers or > leaflet handlers beggars belief and is pretty > insulting. I think it is your naivety that is insulting. Of course there are situations such as you describe, just as there are people in the third world making trainers for those in the UK who are living in similar conditions in sweatshops. Does this mean that ALL people working in the rag-trade live and work in such conditions? No, of course not! There was a time in industrial history when people in factories worked in utterly APPALLING conditions. Was this because factory work was intrinsically dangerous and exploitative? No, of course not. It was because of society's ATTITUDES to factory workers that had to be changed before authentic reform could take place. There seems to be an inability by some people to determine whether poor conditions and exploitation are INTRINSIC to a profession, because of its very nature, and which poor conditions are generated because we criminalise that profession and effectively encourage criminal elements to take it over who will generate exactly the sort of conditions you rightly despise. The point I was making, which I would have hoped was obvious, is that these conditions prevail in SOME areas of prostitution PRECISELY BECAUSE it is currently on the fringe of legality. It therefore attracts shady individuals who are fond of violence, exploitation and intimidation and prevents those within the profession from improving their lot by taking charge of their own labour, organising and having confidence that they can contact the forces of law and order without being persecuted themselves. The way to improve conditions is NOT to criminalise prostitution further or continue to drive it underground (where such appalling practices can flourish) but to bring it more fully into society where it can be regulated, supervised and where the potentially most vulnerable people within it know that they have access to the protection of the law. Look at alcohol. Most of us would prolly say that, whatever problems people may associate with alcohol, its legal status means it is a fairly respectable, open and well-regulated industry with decent working conditions for those who make and serve it. Prohibition in America made alcohol illegal and ACTIVELY CREATED the very conditions of criminality, exploitation, violence and abuse that you now cite as being prevalent amongst prostitution. I believe CWALD is showing that it is possible, by empowering prostitutes rather than condemning them, for prostitution to exist in a much more healthy, non-exploitative manner with women taking control of their own destiny if they wish to work in that profession. The scenario of prostitution you describe is the consequence of our historic way of condemning and marginalising prostitution (even worse 'rescuing' prostitutes against their will), it is NOT an inevitable consequence of prostitution any more than sweatshops are an inevitable consequence of clothing manufacturing, but I fear it will be as long as people take the sort of position (however well meaning) that you do. As for hairdressers, check out girls etc, I am not sure what you find quite so offensive (are you a hairdresser, perhaps?) These are professions in which often young women are paid pitiful wages to work very long hours in extremely demanding conditions with very little appreciation for what they do. By contrast, some prostitutes who have been able to take control of their business are able to earn significant sums of money, work in comparatively comfortable environments and work when they like. A call girl in those circumstances could make more in a night that a hairdresser makes in a week I suspect that there are plenty of hairdressers, checkout girls etc who feel a lot more exploited and downtrodden than a lot of prostitutes. A real life example, a work colleague of mine went to the Spearmint Rhino once and became friendly with one of the girls there (pole-dancing is not quite the same but not a million miles off). Through him I subsequently discovered that this girl dancing a handful of nights a week and was making over ?100 K a year!!!! Who was being exploited there? I guarantee you that if you criminalised pole-dancing, criminal elements would immediately move in to run them and the girls there would end up in exactly the sort of disgraceful conditions that RH complains of.

KalamityKel Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I don't need to use predictive txt and > dictionaries to accidentally put the wrong thing > in a txt or send it too the wrong person :s :-$ I know, I mean some of the stuff you have sent me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't blush easily, but.........:-$

Maximay Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ChavWivaLawDegree Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Maximay, I think you have gor me mixed up with > > your mum. > > > > Nice one. Great advice guys. I'm gona go have > a > > bath, try to relax and try to stop my stomach > > flipping up and down for a bit!!! > > > > If anyone gets a chance I'd love a copy! > > > I think the mum joke went out about 3 years ago. > Not difficult to do the research, been on Kilroy > boasting, been on Soho Stories, been on British > sex, please feel free to check up on the internet, > wasn't that hard to find it all, go on prove me > wrong then if I'm talking Crap, and thats even > before mentioning the newspapers! I guess the danger to CWALD's kids in this situation would be from criticism or harassment from people like you. If you are concerned about CWALD's kids then ensure that you don't bring them into it. It has always struck me as rather strange this type of attitude - "I disapprove of what you do because it affects your kids. How does it affect your kids? Well, it affects your kids because people like me will give your kids grief because of what you do!" I suspect that CWALD is pointing out that, despite society's historic hostility to prostitution (stemming from irrational sex-negative and misogynistic prejudices as old as mankind) prostitution nonetheless is a profession that can often allow a woman control of what she does and allow her to have real financial freedom. These elements of control and financial reward are ones that are traditionally admired in our society and I doubt if you would object to any other professional alluding to them when talking of their work. They are also elements that are woefully absent in other more 'respectable' occupations which could be said to repress and control women much more than prostitution does (low-paid check-out work, hair-dressing, delivering leaflets to name but a few). The main thing that prevents prostitutes more widely achieving these standards is punitive legislation and social stigmatisation. I suspect that type of obstruction is what CWALD is challenging.

KalamityKel Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > A friend of mine (yes I do have them) send me a > very long detailed txt about his "cup" journey > mentioning "cups many times. Now I have to say I > don't see too well in the dark when squinting at > the fone and walking... it made me very > confoosed! > > Domitianus Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > KalamityKel Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > Bus - CUP > > > > Interesting, but what could the real world > > connection be between a bus and a cup? Maybe he genuinely went on a journey in a cup. Floated down the Thames like a character out of a childrens' story. I shall try it myslef - either that or a kettle!

Michael Palaeologus Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I agree with the comments to avoid the emotional. > Challenge the morality - who are they (mainstream > Politicians) to impose a set of moral values on > anybody else? - given the current questionable > activities of both Conservative and Labour > politicians. > > Trafficing will be thrown at you. Yes it is > terrible, but are the majority of Prostitutes > trafficed? I suggest not, some are and that is > awful - but hit the trafiicers not the Prostitutes > and the not the clients. This generalisation is > convenient way of trying to generate public > support for what is essentially a political move. > > Many sectors have bad sides - thousands of people > are killed on the road - are we going to > criminalise driving? > > Also - how many MPs pay for sex I wonder? Are they > really going to criminalise themselves? > > Prostitution - legalise it, regulate it, tax it. > Protect the Prostitutes, take those who abuse > Prostitute women through the courts and put them > away for a long time, but for gods sake lets get > away from this bizzare Victorian hypocrisy. Hear, hear, old chap! Well said.

KalamityKel Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Bus - CUP Interesting, but what could the real world connection be between a bus and a cup?

pHow sweet. You can PM me ;)

I have noticed that certain words keyed into text messages happen to bring up what could (if you have a certain type of mind) be associated terms. For example: 'Kiss' brings up 'lips' as an option. 'Pints' brings up 'shots' as an option. 'Cock' brings up 'anal' as an option. Any other anomalies noticed by others?

KalamityKel Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > haha! sounds like DOM! *ducks* Don't duck dear x

Also, simply pointing out that almost all the "evils" of prostitution are actually CAUSED BY its criminalisation, rather than the evils WARRANTING its criminalisation. Same with drugs, almost all of the major problems associated with drug use are pretty clearly a direct consequence of it being unlawful. If any Government had the guts to legalise drug use (and I mean fully legalise, not just tolerate, but have the likes of heroin available in Boots or Superdrug etc) the vast majority of undesirable consequences would be eliminated overnight. Not to say I approve of or advocate drug use but simply that criminalising it makes a fraught situation infinitely more serious. Just a couple of thoughts.

Simply stick to the practicalities rather than the moral issue if possible. Banning prostitution simply cannot work (never has), simply criminalises both parties for daring to have sex for money (gosh, horror!) and leaves both working girls and punters exposed to risk of disease and physical violence. Just keep your cool and don't get provoked.

I fear that the "name of all that is good and proper" is not the plea likely to engage the support of many of the degenerates on this board!

KalamityKel Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > *rolls eyes* do ppl still use "wet nurses" these > days then? Yep. I get my copy off the top shelf every month. My favourite publication!

That should have been 'hear'!

Hey, I didn't invent the recipe! I here there is an inferior version using cheap au pairs' breast milk but it isn't quite as rich and creamy.

Annasfield Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Gross.... Well, that's DM for you.....

I think the big mistake here is that people are confusing 'Holendase' sauce with its better known cousin Hollandaise sauce. They are very different beasts. A 'Holendase' sauce requires a quart of DM's fresh breast milk, two onions (although some say that DM's milk is sour enough already), a bar of Green & Black's chocolate, the tears of a dozen spoilt ED brats, a bottle of rum and a dash of environmentally friendly washing powder. These should be filtered through the defunct drain underneath Green & Blue, reduced over a table-warmer from the Dulwich Tandoori and then drizzled over a veggie ciabatta from Mon Petit Chou. I hope I have cleared up this unfortunate misunderstanding.

I agree Brendan. It is not so much the size or small number of butts that is the issue, it is the attitude of complete contempt for the neighbour that is implied. Personally, I would be hopping mad if someone dumped their crap in my garden. I mean the fact that they didn't just squash it underfoot in their own garden and leave it there indicates that they view it as a piece of rubbish they don't want to have littering the place, so what does it say about their attitude if they just choose to dump it next door? There are some things that can be very minor that nonetheless have the connotation of disrespect or calculated insult and I think flicking a cig butt into someone's space is one of them.

My mother had a similar problem with a neighbour a few years ago (personally I would have been livid, I think it absolutely insulting and would have been tempted to throw back a dog-turd). She played it smart, however, and went round to the neighbour with a concerned look on her face and told them she had found cigarette butts outside her back door beside the dividing fence and was worried that there might be intruders coming into the back gardens from a piece of undeveloped land at the back. She asked the neighbour if they had had the same experience. The neighbour (realising of course they were the culprit) said that they had not noticed anything but would keep their eyes peeled. From that moment onwards there were no more cigarette ends tossed over the fence. Softly, softly, shame the junkie!

Hey Bossman wines the wine chilling machine you have is great, takes a while though. Good selection of organic wines and organic lagers though, slightly unique to the area.(tu)

I was in Sea Cow last last and Dan was there behind the counter. I was most impressed by the steps he seems to have taken to respond to the criticism on here. Moment I walked in the door he recognised me and arranged for my customary cup of tea to be served straight away. The salmon I got was a real change from what had gone before (I never thought it had ever been THAT bad before, mind) - it was moist, beautifully cooked and the chips were spot on. It was a very noticeable change all round. On the way out I told him I was impressed and he told me a few of the tangible changes they had made to get standards back up again - all fish cooked fresh to order rather than being cooked and put in a hot cupboard (he removed the cupboard door to make this impossible), chips not used within five minutes chucked out, etc. The difference shows! They have clearly taken notice of the feedback they got and raised their game. Well done to all. I told him I would post on here about my experience. Before any cynics leap in, I still had to pay full price which I was happy to do.