Louisa

bald marauder i've never been to Japan but I have been twice to south Korea and have eaten at the 'Namwon Sea Village Sliced Raw Fish Restaurant' - (hope I got that right it's been a while). I tried some absolutely amazing dishes and I can honestly say that I am a big fan of good quality fish. As I previously said I grew up around Fishmongers and I am regular at various good quality fish restuarants, I do know my stuff. FC Sopers is of a high standard and I support them not only because they are less expensive but also because I have loyalty to local firms who have been around for a long time. The food is of a good quality, I am not just saying this to argue for arguments sake. Billingsgate was at one time a magnificent market in the city, but once it moved it never quite had the same appeal. I agree that in the far east most of the fish markets are superior because of the sheer variety they have. I've never heard of that, I still use Listerine. But then I would because i'm just a common scrubber from south east London. ;-)

Asset my love you do amuse. Sadly Louisa isnt rising to the bait this evening, so put the red rag down and raise the white flag. Oh were you not the one who claimed to have shopped at Sopers previously, also a staunch supporter of local small business too if I remember rightly. As for the generalisation that I am not prepared to mix with fellow forumites well that is simply absurd. I have been invited and was sadly forced to decline due to personal circumstances previously. You see the thing is, I am quite happy to mix with all types of people and experience all types of pubs and restaurants. Unlike yourself I am not a gastropub whore who only buys produce from certain 'middle class' shops. Life is great when you live a little. Try it sometime. Louisa :)

Excuse me?

mamafeelgood- you've lost me Marmora Man - I dont know how many times I have to say this, but ALL fish which is brought to market in London HAS BEEN FROZEN! Next you'll be telling me that Moxons freeze their fish in a special way which Sopers do not. Good grief.

'do the math' - no reason to use an Americanism to be condescending Asset! I'm fully aware that there are good cuts and bad cuts of fish, but when you buy from a market like Bilingsgate the produce isnt sold unless it reaches certain standards. No such thing as a cheaper cut is sold unless it is bought in bulk by supermarkets. Mxons and Sopers both buy from the same suppliers at Billingsgate I am willing to bet. You wont admit it Asset, but the real reason you enjoy going to Moxons is because you want to feel as though you are getting something which is better than what other people get. I dont blame you of course, this sort of snobbery is usually unknowingly taken for granted in certain gentrified communities in London.

bald marauder - As someone who grew up around fishmongers (my grandfather on mothers side and all of my uncles) I know a good piece of fish. Nearly all of London's fresh fish is taken to the new Billingsgate Market at Canary Wharf from all over the country and world and is then checked and double checked by the wholesalers before being put on display for the Fishmongers/Restauranters/Fish and Chip shop owners and others. The quality of the fish is second to non, and this is why trying to suggest that Moxons fish is any better than any other fishmonger in London is simply just ridiculous. Moxons may sell a more diverse range to cater for obviously better travelled and more cultured folk in ED (hu-hum), but the quality of the produce, I can assure you, is exactly the same. Where do you buy your mouthwash from?

Asset you are hardly one to point the finger in my direction regarding snobbery! Shall I be childish and dig up some old posts on preious threads? lol AB - we do all get along and i'm more than happy to join in a group hug. Please dont take all of this to heart!

Gentrification - the buying and renovation of houses and stores in deteriorated urban neighborhoods by upper- or middle-income families or individuals, thus improving property values but often displacing low-income families and small businesses. This rings a bell... Snob - One who tends to patronize, rebuff, or ignore people regarded as social inferiors and imitate, admire, or seek association with people regarded as social superiors. One who affects an offensive air of self-satisfied superiority in matters of taste or intellect Good grief now we really are on the ball... Bigot - One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ. Well if I am one of these then surely most of the ED newcomers fit into this catergory too! Intolerance isnt just about disagreement and stuborn obstinance, it's also about where you choose to shop. If the image isnt right, the above word 'snob' kicks in, and the people I refer to fail to support the business because it does not fit in with their lifestyle or way of living. try all sorts before I judge, some people on here dont even do that much!

I must be missing something here... I have already told you I dont mind being called 'bigoted'. It makes no odds to me at all. I know where I stand, and so do you. What point are you trying to make?

But you would say that wouldnt you. You are exactly the type of person I am refering to! The fishmongers in ED is exceptionally overpriced, and the quality of the produce isnt any better than that sold at F C Sopers. It's yet another prime example of how the new people into this community want to destroy the local way of life and bring in their own fancy shopping habits and force them on everyone else. If I am bigoted because I want to save traditional local businesses which dont have Clapham written all over them then so be it.

The genuine reason to go the extra distance was there, but certain snobs locally feel the need to denigrate something if it isnt trendy or from clapham, hence why W Head and Sons went under three years ago. F C Soper isnt overpriced and it does sell high quality fish. Just because it doesnt cater for poncey people who enjoy sushi and live on planet la la shouldnt be a good enough reason to put it down (and judging by the opinions of certain folk I would suggest this to be the case).

Peckham Rye and Nunhead is hardly a million miles away is it? All the years that there was no local butcher or fishmonger in ED saw people shop at Sainsburys rather tan travel to support a local business. Its less than a 20 minute walk from ED to these places Jah.

I make sure aways by the best quality meat, and I usually attend a decent butcher. Wha gets me so worked up is that a traditional local butcher like W Head and sons was based at Peckham Rye for over 100 years, and was forcedto close due to a lack of customers. William Rose jump on theorganic band wagon and exploit the gentrificaton of ED by opening up and selling meat in a traditional setting under the 'organic' label. W Head was selling quality meat sourced from some of the most ethical farms in the land, and non of the locals helped out that family business stay above water! The Same is happening with F C Sopers of Nunhead. Now that the posh Moxons has graced LL, everyone abandons a local family business. The organic label is in most cases just that - if you go to a good quality butchers the meat is almostalways sourced from ethical and high quality farms. I know the history of William Rose and this is why whenever the name pops up it makes my blood boil. But dont get me wrong. I think they have a brilliant business mind. I just hate the idea that people on the forum can support them and their business plan over the issue of the elderly lady, who is probably a long standing resident.

I've often considered it. I might do that next time actually. As long as thebar manager isnt locked up in their CCTV cage waiting like a lion to pounce on it's next victim.

Southwark's traffic wardens are probably the most ticket happy in all of London. I find myself getting angry even when i'm in the wrong now, just because I know how desperate they are to hand out tickets to relieve boredom.

I always am

I never suggested Sainsburys was not a rip-off SimonM! Far from it, but I shall save that for another thread. I'd love to know what a civilised queue looks like too. I guess it's the opposite to one which is uncivilised. I'm sure William Rose have a sense of humour, they must have if they can sell 'organic' meat... hehe

Foxtons looks fantastic too, I cant wait to go in for a coffee and pretend I am selling up. The cafe area looks rather nice, with views out to such delights as White Stuff and Green and Blue. Fantastic!

I find parking at kings a complete nightmare and I think it is a little harsh for them to be quick to give out tickets when they do not offer many spaces in the first place. I have had sick relatives who have not been able to walk far and I find parking, often as far away as Camberwell Green, a complete nightmare, but thats just the way it is. I would risk a fine if I thought I needed to get into the hospital in an emergency or if a relative or friend was sick and couldnt walk far, but I would hold my hands up and not complain. I just hope in their wisdom the hospital trust will consider some sort of underground parking facility or buying up land nearby (if any exists).

The elderly lady who lives next door to rip off William Rose has every right to demand that customers do not queue outside her property. Screaming toddlers on a Saturday afternoon, loud mouth yuppies buying venison for a dinner party. I'd be tearing my hair out every day. It is not too difficult to be courteous and respect those who were there before you. I find the suggestion that she should be forced to let out "prime commercial property" totally ludicrous too! What sort of country do we live in? Good luck to her I say, she should remain as finicky and non co-operative as possible. I really cant stand that butchers. Bermondsey '2 for 1' style meat market trying to rip off the wealthy with hooky organic meat. It's just not on.

jan t please do not knock the expanse of glass, it looks most fetching and will certainly brighten up what otherwise has been a very bland local landmark for some decades now!

What is West Dulwich? Where is it? must be missing something here. I know of Tulse Hill.. the Village area (which kind of incorporates North Dulwich station)and of course ED, but after that I am lost. More importantly, if someone like me has not even heard of the place, why on earth is someone making a forum about the place!

Most of the local Chinese takeaways, especally in Peckham, are actually run by Vietnamese people. A large Vietnamese community locally has always meant that most of the Chinese we eat is influenced bv Vietnamese cooking. The food tends to be more spicy than Chinese and contains much more fish. Similar to Thai cooking but not so heavy on the currys and fusion of flavours.

Sean my love! Good to see a friendly face once more :).. I went to Milton Keynes to stay with relatives for a few weeks (the internet is beyond their budget and technological capacity i'm afraid bless their cottons).. But am back and more ready than ever to make the most of the last proper summer month! How are you? and oh yes something about coffee or summit or nuffin.. ;-)

Crows are wonderful birds, and so much prettier than boring old pigeons. I feel they have character to them and some sort of mystical edge.. I think its' great to see wildlife in London, as much as everyone complains about foxes and hedgehogs creating a mess of the rubbish or making too much noise, i'd rather have these creatures in my city than some of the scummy chavs who live locally!