RosieH

StraferJack Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- But Rosieh brought up a slew of > stats and statements (where I have already said I > agreed with her) Do you mean the stats that said that a percentage of people held a woman responsible if she: was drunk / dressed provocatively / had many sexual partners? Granted, they don't all relate to attire, but they do all relate to the idea that the rapist, not the victim should be held accountable. Whereas the idea that slutwalk should address false claims seems incongruous..?

Loz, it's a really difficult one, and I've changed my mind a few times, and still may change it again. Broadly, I'm in favour of anonymity. The difficulty with that is that, as you rightly point out, in cases where there has been no obvious evidence of violence / coercion, it's a his word against hers situation (or his / his), and women can struggle to get a fair hearing when their character's attacked, while his is presented as impeccable. Lack of anonymity can help overcome this, when it becomes 12 women's words against one man's, the balance of probability shifts considerably: and when women are still so reluctant to come forward, publicising the man's name can be the only way. Is it too high a price to pay for potentially ruining a man's life? At the moment I think yes. I can't guarantee I won't switch back again though. So don't shoot me if this subject comes up in a year's time and I say something different.

SJ, you know me better than that, and if I weren't already so hopping mad, I might be furious that you could even suggest it. I thought I was supposed to be the one unable to keep a cool head in this particular argument (which is the very reason I was reluctant to post on the subject in the first place). So think on. Anyway, quick answer, as I need to try to do some work on my last day in the job. My point was trying hard and clearly failing to be that false allegations, while appalling and unforgivable, are such a teeny tiny fraction of the whole, that's it's pretty insulting to those that have been raped and are subject to character assassination, to say that those few lying women need to be sorted out before every other woman can hope to be treated with humanity.

Jesus Christ, SJ, I really, truly expected better from you. I'd be interested to know what proportion of rapes you believe to go unreported. And what proportion of reported rape allegations you believe to be false. And let's look at it all on a pie chart. Edited to respond to that - Slutwalk was about addressing the issue of students being advised by a police officer that if they didn't want to get raped, they shouldn't dress like sluts - i.e. it's not really the rapist's fault if you look too delectable not to violently fuck. Try telling that to women in burkhas, to the pensioner victims of the night stalker who thought they were safely tucked up in their beds, or to any other woman who's ever had her character assassinated in court while her attacker gets off - you tell her to her face that really the issue we need to get at is that some women have sometimes lied. If you feel they should also start a Salem witch trial as part of the Slutwalk goings on, suggest you drop the organisers a note.

WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE YOU - yes YOU - you're going to die. It might not be today. It might not be tomorrow. It might not be for another 50 years. But in this hotbed of East Dulwich iniquity, you ARE going to die. Incidentally, has Sainsbury's had anything to say about these car park attacks?

Don't worry Loz, my mission has been accomplished. But the point you make about evidence, while entirely valid and without a doubt a huge contributory factor, isn't the whole story. While attitudes such as those above prevail (and yes, I count women too), you're always going to have a harder time convincing a jury once you get to court. Or convincing the CPS to take it to court. Or convincing a policeman to treat it as a crime (it was a policeman's comments that started the whole Slutwalk thing off in the first place). Jeremy Paxman, on Newsnight on Tuesday or Wednesday this week, referred to the attempted rape allegations against Dominique Strauss Kahn as an "embarrassing incident". An intelligent man misspeaks? Well, I hope so - but the reason so many women (and men) get so angry is because it's the only crime where the victim gets the blame. If attitudes can shift, attrition rates may follow - then again they may not shift much for the reasons you point out. But it's a vital step in the right direction. Oh, and Piers, for any women who've ever worked with him, that ambiguity is probably a daily conundrum!

Can I ask a really dumb question. When you go through an agency, you're covered by their insurance. But what happens if you go direct - do you have to tell your insurance providers you have a cleaner? And do your premiums go up?

Heh, you tell 'em Claire. I'd just like to ask the naysayers where on earth they think case studies in documentaries and on news reports and in newspapers come from. If there's no one in the office with a friend or relation who fits the bill, trawling is the way to go. I get a daily email from national newspaper and TV journos (and not just ITV / Channel 5) asking for people with experience of all kinds of things, from not getting Olympics tickets to serious medical conditions. If "people bought people" a little less, there'd be no need for it. The forum is as legitimate a place as any to look. And as for the BBC being pure, my ex, who's in news, though not in front of the camera, once turned up as a talking head who shared a medical condition with a famous world leader. Not only did he not share the condition, he was not credited as a BBC employee. And he looked rubbish to boot.

Loz, you're right in terms of attrition rate for sure - but it's not necessarily as simple as bald facts. The issue of the lower likelihood of incidence of rape going unreported as compared with incidence of violence against the person notwithstanding, there is also the question of identifying the attacker. In the majority of rape cases the attacker is known to the victim - I honestly don't know the answer to this, so would be interested if you do, but can the same be said of all violent crime? If not, when the attacker has been identified, rather than the police having to go out and find them, then that attrition rate starts to look considerably worse. And when you come to conviction rates, well rape fares less well than other violent crime. I'm not all about a soapbox - and I'm not saying that rape is worse than all other violent crime - but I do think attitudes towards this particular crime need to change and that's why this walk is important. ?In no other crime is the victim subject to so much scrutiny during an investigation or at trial; nor is the potential for victims to be re-traumatised during these processes as high in any other crime.? (HMCPS & HMIC, 2007) And when you come to look at why, here are some public attitudes - the data is a few years old, so it would be interesting to see it updated. ? A third (34%) of people in the UK believe that a woman is partially or totally responsible for being raped if she has behaved in a flirtatious manner (AIUK 2005). ? More than a quarter (26%) of people think a woman was partially or totally responsible for being raped if she was wearing sexy or revealing clothing (AIUK 2005). ? More than one in five (22%) hold the same view if a woman has many sexual partners (AIUK 2005). ? Around one in 12 people (8%) believe a woman is totally responsible for being raped if she has many sexual partners (AIUK 2005). ? Nearly a third of people (30%) say a woman was partially or totally responsible for being raped if she was drunk (AIUK 2005). source So indiepanda, I would say to you, forget about the people who are hijacking the original purpose of the walk with the idea of reclaiming the word 'slut'. I believe it's beyond redemption, though I might be proved wrong. The purpose of the walk is to remind society that the attacker, not the victim, should be held responsible for the crime.

The very fella. Actually charming and I wouldn't hurt a hair on his head. I quite liked that in his strangulated anglicised accent though, that he used 'slut' English stylee and not yankside.

KK, yes, it bally well is. I wasn't being serious. Double standards are a very real part of this problem. If you want to dress like a slut then I suggest you don't wash your clothes and give them a quick blast of Febreze instead. PGC is quite right. Incidentally, Loyd Grossman once called me a slut and I wear it as a badge of honour - he meant it of course that I am a slattern as I couldn't iron his shirt to his exacting standards.

KK, I thought boys couldn't be sluts?

Thanks lovely Jah. For anyone who is unaware, the Slutwalks aren't about reclaiming the word 'slut' as has often been misreported in some of the more sensationalist press. They started as students in Canada were advised on campus by a police officer that if they want to avoid being raped, they should avoid dressing like sluts. The point of these walks is to reinforce the message that rape is the crime and the fault of the rapist, not of the victim. Slutwalk London is happening on Saturday. Kick off is 1pm at Picadilly.

Thanks Brendan. My walking buddy isn't well, and I'm trying to find someone else to hang out with - if anyone local's going and wouldn't mind a tag-along, do let me know. Jah, you know better than that.

I'm somewhat hesitatnt to post this on here, however... Was wondering if anyone local will be slutwalking on Saturday?

Are you really David? You never sneak a peek at mine - is it only Nettie's that you covet?

Annette Curtain Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > RosieH Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Ooh, is that carbon steel? > > > :)H, what else ? You don't see much these days. Lost mine in a house move. That has made me nostalgic.

All of the above was simple - was essentially what you repeated photographically, except with root and fingers intact. ;-)

I do enjoy a memoir - excited and about to embark on this

And would you look at those fingertips

Ooh, is that carbon steel?

I never do trashy. It's not a wilful or pretentious thing, but I really hate badly written prose. I tried to read a bit of Dan Brown once, I did, I really did. I think I managed a sentence. However, having developed a belated love for both Jackie Collins and Jilly Cooper (the women, not their books), I am about to embark on a voyage of their discovery. Any recommendations on where to start most welcome.

I see your Sabatier and raise you a Henckels.

Clutz? Less that than being hung over as a motherfucker. And as Moos is altogether too much of a lady for such sluttish cheffery, it is less of a worry. Nevertheless, the correct cutting technique should be employed at all times. No fingertips near blades in case of momentary distraction by flying champagne corks or small things getting too close to the oven.

First, don your gimp mask. This will help alleviate unseemly crying. Much as the Carnell says, but just to add, while a sharp knife is important, it can actually lead to chunks of finger in the stew. This has happened to me, and while the dinner party didn't descend into a cannibalistic frenzy, it did hurt and fingers do bleed like billy-o, So... when holding the onion, curl your fingers underneath your knuckles slightly, so that the flat of the knife blade rests against your knuckles, and fingertips are safely out of the way of the blade. As for knives - good German steel's what you need, my girl.