Sephiroth

People like Cat get to play a great-craic intellectual game where they rip up /ignore every international rule, claim it needs more believers/more time, and no matter how badly it goes wrong they will always always be able to blame poor implementation/external forces There will be zero accountability - none

it's precisely that DKH

"Liz - forget the EU. Brexit is done. Focus on Global Britain! Get great trade deals from around the world (even if it means those countries come out on top and we get some Tim tams) Oh but while you're here Liz - Brexit.. yeah.. it's not done. never will be. So we've given you the brief to get a better deal with the EU as well as better deal for global Britain. Conflicting messages? No no no. Not at all. Sure America blew us out of the water with the NIP, and Frosty resigned but we believe in you. Just tell America NI is safe with us, do trade deals with conflicting countries and tell the EU go hang. No-one will know. We had someone leaking a week or two back but think we have that under control now" quotes my own this time - not a quote from twitter. Rod for my own back there eh? yes facile and sneery - but also... accurate in it's message

How do we think Truss is going to do? https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/dec/19/liz-truss-to-take-on-brexit-brief-after-lord-frost-resignation

""So, I'm apparently a member of a 'vanishingly small collection of oddballs'? " Well yes - again, objectively so. Polls continue to show support for Brexit falling, as people who voted for their brexit (very different from yours) realise they are being screwed. But the oddballs are out there for everyone to see - the ones pushing for this weird, hard, pretend EU doesn't exist - the Bakers, The Frosts, the Mordaunts and yes the Trumps of this world - they are in a tiny minority. Everyone can see this "t's worth remembering that the Brexit campaign was backed by former party leaders, former foreign secretaries and chancellors of the exchequer. It was backed by historians, economists and political theorists" if you are going to highlight such luminaries, it would be dishonest if you didn't also point out that all of those categories had members against Brexit, and in fair greater numbers and with far more credibility than any of the ones you care to name? Economists? Minford and his cohorts? That simply isn't credible? Anyone you name in that list will be seen as on the crankish end of their spectrum, and in very small numbers Am I wrong or factually incorrect with that statement? But putting that aside - even if all too esteemed leaders were ALL campaigning for brexit - it wasn't this brexit. It wasn't YOUR brexit. It's a all a lie, a fantasy and a scam. You can have a brexit - but you won't be happy with it and neither will any other brexit faction "Well.....I'd really love to know what overwhelming credentials you have? what your towering achievements are, that you can look down your nose at all these people and dismiss their considered judgement out of hand? Not even worthy of an 'agree to disagree' concession, as you've mentioned many time before.....? " Who claimed overwhelming credentials? Just a voter like you - but one who recognises that if I listen to all of the professions you claim to be in support of brexit - they all come down on side of Remain, in big numbers. So I listen to them -because they know more than their kookish compadres Promises made by Brexiteers are not in their gift to deliver - and that is not something we can "agree to disagree on"

Cat Not wound up Nope Official

why bother? because they make succinct arguments in a small amount of words. I was on a phone and thought they were points well made that pro brexit people like yourself could refute (ha!) Normally if I post a tweet from someone else I say "via so and so" - with the DG tweet, I was on a phone and decided against trying to type the name and just leave it in quotes. I think the previous tweet was a similar reasoning, albeit with a much easier spelling of the tweeter. Is this REALLY now about me trying to pass off other peoples tweets as my own? Because that is absolute Grade A shitehousery you are still avoiding addressing any points made. Because of course you are ok so - given the huge majority, given the "get brexit done", given the ferocity of "Frosty" and given the complete absence of any success - what would you do now? You can blame Johnson and "the establishment" (embarrassing as that would be given some of the establishment lined up on your side) so would a more capable government have done better? Who would that govt comprise of? And why (not how) but why would they have done better. You couldn't have a more PRO Brexit govt. You could have an even less capable one (indeed that might be incoming with Truss, IDS, Baker et al having more prominent roles) You could have a MORE capable one - but that would mean keeping more capable, saner MPS, like Grieve etc Uk has cut itself adrift - no-one cares about it (other than to dip in an skim off some of the easy fat). Hence Mordaunts humiliating appearance in USA last week Either it continues down this ridiculous path (with all of the economic and reputation damage that entails) or it starts to reverse course That's it. Your fantasy/fantasist supply-side Brexit simply has no traction or support Does anyone on here share anything remotely like Cat's view? Because the country as a whole sure as hell doesn't. And trying to Trojan horse this nonsense on the back of Brexit is morally bankrupt

Also, anyone reading this thread still, will be fairly across the kinds of twitter trade/political commentators posting regularly on the subject Chances of anyone passing off someone else?s tweet as their own are nil Regardless, DG point stands You got the majority You removed the dissenters You appointed the ideologies And you achieved jack shit And the reason for that is nothing to do with partisanship. And entirely down to objective reality. Cat is living in a tiny tiny bubble which has zero mandate for their Brexit. But still they plough on causing damage to peoples lives and livelihoods. It?s a disgrace and needs calling out

Correct. I put it in quotes so make it obvious it wasn?t mine. But on a phone keyboard the chances of me typing his name were minimal.

Because to even oppose a shit idea makes one ?partisan? I mean the point stands. It doesn?t need commentary. It?s not even partisan It?s objectively true But instead of addressing any of that it?s just your usual obfuscation. You are part of a vanishingly small group of oddballs (see also the mordaunt speech in the USA last week) who see Brexit as a supply side interruption and opportunity. What you should do is gather as much grace as is possible, admit as much and apologise to the country Maybe you have gathered as much grace as is possible already. Who knows

from the twitter post of Dmitry Grozubinski ? If you can't get Brexit done to your satisfaction with an 80 seat majority purged of non-believers, Boris "Get Brexit Done" Johnson as PM, and Lord "I Will Fight EU" Frost as EU Negotiations Tzar, perhaps it is your expectations and not cruel fate or sabotage are the problem?? (citation added retrospectively by me)

Have we even mentioned the atrocious WhatsApp messages between Baker/Dorries/Fysh and co last night? Absolute away with fairies, rats in a sack, nonsense

"Well...obviously a very fundamental misalignment of respective perspectives... " Just to be clear - is this a reference to the differences between, say, you and me? Or is it a reference to the red-wall voters vs the like so you and Steve Baker?

5 years of this shit All that is left is deserved mockery. Sooner we put this behind us we can get back to normality Thanks for the input tho

That cbi speech is just awful isn?t it? Pie in the sky libertarian daydreaming. Just as awful as the worst corbyn wet dream But even if you think it?s the bees knees, it?s hard to argue it?s what the ?never voted before, voted labour all my life but voted to get Brexit done and believe Johnson?s levelling up ? voters in Rotherham are four-square behind

from a twitter post by @RavinAnenden ? Lord Frost's resignation exemplifies a pattern among all the loud sovereignty purists: upon realising that there are difficult trade-offs inherent in their own choices, they pack their bags and leave, blaming others for the self-inflicted mess.?

I?d say it?s more ?being paid by the mail for oppiniunz? than it is Glenda being an MP/movie star

nor has he heard that a resurgent LibDem vote is historically aligned with Labour doing well but then again - it's Dan Hodges. He is astonishingly dim

Tories are saying "he's on a final warning" But in reality... there can't be long if they want to win next election. If election is in 2024 there are 2 more years of Johnson with all that that entails - they surely don't want that But if they do want someone else leading them by next election they have to make the change soon and embed WhoEver in good time But even in doing that, that's the 4th leader of the ELECTED party we will have had in nearly as many years - can they honestly claim to rule the country until 2024? (and that's before you get into the further realities of Brexit hitting, Scottish indie calls yada yada) Whole thing looks shaky as to me

Objectively, even allowing for the astonishing swing/historical significance of the vote etc, it is JUST a by-election (albeit a self-inflicted one) Governments have suffered these before and gone on to win However - given my posts earlier in this thread, I clearly think it's the moment when all the hot air, boosterism, lies, whatever you want to call them, have been called out and things could happen very quickly now Maybe Christmas break will be in Johnson's favour. But the coalition that got him here is unlikely to relish limping on for another 2 years

Whilst the future of the NHS, it's structure and the govt intentions are all up for debate - I don't think anyone is knocking the NHS, the people who work there or the job they do jazzer?

?It?s been a couple of years. Shall we Brexit this bit now?? ?Christ no. Are you mad???? https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/dec/15/uk-delays-brexit-checks-on-goods-entering-from-ireland?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Let?s check in on this bonkers Brexit bonanza https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-trade-revolution It?s almost impossible to read without cringing. To think this is how leavers see themselves when the reset of the world are all too aware of how exposed they are Still. 10, 20, 50 years from now, I?m sure the descendants of Rees-Mogg, Mordaunt and co will have proven Cat right and me wrong. And there won?t have been any casualties to speak of along the way. Some yes. Goes without saying. But not many in the scheme of things

Nice try

I love this thread right now