Sephiroth

And where is this chatter? That bbc article headlines with drama but concludes with a “meh” (also its conclusion about short shelf life of blaming last government should have a look at all the people who still think Labour crashed economy in 2008) so that leaves which websites because a quick google suggests only websites I’d be ashamed to read. But entirely as I expected

"They sold everyone, directly or indirectly, on the notion that Covid, the energy crisis and the war in Ukraine had nothing to do with the sorry state of the UK and that it was 14 years of Tory rule and Truss' nightmare budget that was the source of all the country's woes. " This simply isn't true. Global issues all play their own parts (as they do with other countries) but the UK govt had been especially abject for years. Improvements could not be made with them in power. That's not to say everything is all roses when they go To claim parties shouldn't try and sell themselves in an election is absurd - but if labour did overpromise or dig into specifics (which they partly couldn't because they didn't have their hands on the books) then we live in a country where a population and media is happy to punch on them and relect the shabby last govt I mean if any argument I made was supported by some posters I would rethink it but thats just me

They campaigned on a ticket of "we're not that lot and that lot were awful" and if we get in we will change everything. the first bit is absolutely true Did they campaign on "we will change everything?" my recollection Is they were super cautious about ANY promises to the point where Reeves boxed herself in Changing much is certainly the way forward - but no way is that possible in a couple of years much less a few months Notable that anything they DO change leads to how's of protest as well - damned if you change nothing damned if you change anything

agreed Mal and it's not like this new govt is above criticism - there is plenty to worry about or think they are misguided on - but overall there is just about a sense of necessary correction, and that the specific criticism from some on here isn't really all that objective I get they are super unpopular - but anyone voting for ANY party at the last election and thinking a new govt of any hue would be able to turn on taps and make everyone happy given the state of everything was just not taking politics, governance or their own choices seriously enough

" increasing costs, red tape and inflation" yet when Brexit did this people were told to stop remaining Governments are not run like household budgets "It's amazing that the government have been daft enough to pick a fight with farmers - Alastair Campbell commented that he did react with shock when it was announced in the budget as, he said, you don't start a fight with farmers." And this sounds more like a protection racket than anything else

That doesn’t contextualise it’s part in the 22 billion black hole at all However “ The £21.9 billion was a net figure. Gross additional pressures totalling £35.3 billion were identified by the Treasury, and approximately £13.4 billion of these pressures were then offset by a combination of reserve funds and other allowances. The additional pressures identified were as follows: 2024-25 public sector pay awards (£9.4bn) ”

I probably wouldn't have given junior doctors a 22% pay rise and then claimed that as part of the 22bn black hole "inherited" by this government again - that isn’t really true - there is a gross 30+ billion “black hole” but even accounting for the 8ish billion for pay rise (which isnt even talking about the damage the strike was doing or how deserved the rise was ) still leaves 22 billion and not a million miles away from the extra billions pledged by reeves to farmers in the budget )

That % of “affected” doesn’t mean they are all in deep trouble. It means this will touch on them in some small way mostly - apart from the biggest farms it’s like high rate tax earners taking to the street when Osborne dragged child/benefit claimants into self assessment. A mild pain the more I read, the more obviously confected it is. Still - just as with farage and his banking “woes”, a social media campaign is no barrier to the gullible what percentage of farms affected by Brexit and to what degree compared go IHT? Or does that not matter? Thats different money is it?

A tax change that affects a tiny portion of farmers livelihoods and income - mass protest and wild accusations on forums like this Brexit which impacted farmers income and uk food security far far far more ? Crickets. Absolutely nothing. “Price worth paying mate “ Don’t be fooled about what this is about - it’s isn’t IHT.

Doesn’t seem that simple according to fullfact that’s a net figure ” The £21.9 billion was a net figure. Gross additional pressures totalling £35.3 billion were identified by the Treasury, and approximately £13.4 billion of these pressures were then offset by a combination of reserve funds and other allowances. The additional pressures identified were as follows: 2024-25 public sector pay awards (£9.4bn) ” I don’t think Labour have set expectation that changing government cures all the ills. In fact some people on here criticise them for saying exactly opposite “vote for us we’re not them but nothing will change because global issues” I think they are too cautious across many areas. They could have been more explicit before election but such is the countries media and electorate that if they were we would now be stuck with sunak/badenoch/someone else with the 14 years of baggage of their government and infighting the broad strokes of this government are essentially along right lines also loving ckarkson today “ Clarkson: Your claim that I bought a farm to avoid taxes is false and irresponsible. BBC: It’s your own claim. Clarkson: What’s that got to do with anything?” and by loving I mean “loathing as much as I ever have”

Jazzer - I’m sorry mate but I can’t engage with you because you seem a bit lost. Have never liked Corbyn and have fallen out with mates because of how hostile I was towards him the country hasn’t fallen apart in 4 months since or because Labour took over the country has been banjaxed since 2008 because of global financial crisis and then years of austerity, Brexit and multiple loony Tory leaders in space of about 6 months. infrastructure and services have crumbled to nothing. Look at satisfaction ratings for nhs in 2010 compared to now as an example any govt taking over will not be able to turn this around possibly in a whole term some rich people (and lost people) will scream very very loudly but country needs fixing - and despite me disagreeing with several aspects of Labour in power (and I agree with some of rockets points) there is some semblance of a path back to stability no alternative party offers anything close to credibility at time of writing

“ they announced the 22bn blackhole and many people said...but 9bn of that are based on decisions you made in relation to public sector pay rises.” I’d be interested in the source of that Very hard to escape the notion that behind all of the “promises, fairness, anti farmer” rhetoric some people just really really don’t like having a Labour government of any kind - nowt to do with this one

what it all reminds me of most is the introduction of the minimum wage, and the dire predictions from vested parties But that all turned out pretty well and no-one would scrap it now would they? jazzer man - walk away from the weird websites you spend too long on. It's kinda weird "Why should ANYONE have to pay inheritance tax when the original owner has already paid tax on it." because you just got summat for nowt original owner is dead already so it's not a death tax You just don't like the idea of tax at all - so I'm not sure where money for public services would come from in your world

It's nothing to do with being a cheerleader for labour - it's about starting to address some of the problems inherent in the economy. Many many many other essential groups of people have contributed fair share or had industries eliminated before so it's not some attack on Farmers "If 500 farms sell off 20% of their land each year (the PMs estimate on the back of a Rizla paper) then how long before we lose large chunks of farm land "? "As for giving away land, sure providing they live 7 years afterwards " - is that so unlikely? Of the 500 farms in the example, how many would this help? Most I'd say I just haven't seen anything like the same "but what about the nurses/the police/the miners" as I have about the farmers - it's quite extraordinary

it's not that many farms and they can always gift it to their hardworking offspring before they die, can't they? as for Trump. funny how no-one ever complains when it's trump doing Name calling. Or Tories talking about EU leaders or threatening Irish food supply - never about "making it hard to work with people" then

always love the contrast between a peaceful march in central London under a Tory govt = "the marchers are taking up police time AND stopping traffic!! what if an ambulance can't get to hospital and someone dies! leftie scum!" vs a major planned disruption by farmers threatening to stop food production - "good on 'em!! incompetent govt!" NI is simply going back to what it was months ago. Minimum wage increases have happened before And do tell what the Southport story is that hasn't come out?

After the last 14 years of govt where things got demonstrably worse year on year on year - people did not rise up after 5 prime ministers in 6 years because of their ineptitude - the people did not rise up The notion that a govt with a thumping majority is going to be overthrown is for the birds People do understand what they inherited the nfu might portray this as a battle on farmers - but so few will be affected it’s impossible not to laugh Plus, add in the hilarity of everyone who decried every street protest for 14 years now saying “bring it on!!” As for the poor - they have removed winter fuel from SOME pensioners who are more likely to afford it they have also increase minimum wage for the poor Which ain’t nothing and well done for squeezing a jaded “money tree” reference in there

Right. Already too many people saying “labour pushed for longer and more stringent lockdowns” which if nothing else, does seem to give credence the notion that yes people can be brainwashed Nothing ... Nothing Labour pushed for was about longer lockdowns. Explicitly, and very clearly they said “lock down early OR we will be locking down for longer “ ie they were trying to prevent the longer lockdowns we had But “positive thinking” and “nothing to see here” from Johnson led to bigger problems as for the hand-wavery about the economic inheritance and markets being spooked by labour budget - look - things did get really really and under last government and they tried to hide it. So when someone tries to address it, no one is going to be happy. But pretending all was tickety boo is a child’s response

God bless the UK and it's delusions that they need to deliberate over this or that their decision will have any consequence whatsoever (as with everything Brexit related, some performative nonsense, followed by them just falling in line ) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2lj58jql8o

the recent (excellent) BBC documentary on Microdisney (still on iPlayer) has several interviews with Sean and Cathal just before Cathal's passing - Them walking through Peckham Rye etc. Cathal did used to live in SE22 but moved out towards Limehouse years and years back but I believe Sean is still local yes (my review of the documentary in no way influenced by my lumpen head appearing several times)

well - if we were to take this forum as an example then, certainly back in the day, the opposite was true. Monthly forum drinks were held and grew exponentially for a year or two. I personally met dozens of people I'm still in contact with despite many of us being blown away by the wind. Even people who I clashed violently with - there was one writer (sadly passed away a few years back) who was so aggressive I arranged to meet them at the EDT one on one - and she was lovely.

quiz/sausage and chips/play your cards was definitely a thing at the Magdala in it's bright yellow incarnation - mid noughties great way to finish a weekend

Huguenot posts for first time in 3 years - things done changed around here I'm always suspicious of the argument that "social media" is to blame for anything - I would normally argue it's the "social" - ie people part of it which is the problem. Those green ink posters on trees people now get to gather and vent That being said - what Musk has done to twitter is genuinely problematic

"You are confusing The Cherry Tree (near the station) with Black Cherry" absolutely correct! I'm getting old and confused

and I lived upstairs from someone who used to frequent that place "And how about the pub which is now The Cherry Tree. Can't remember what it was called before, though I think its present name is a blast from the quite distant past." This is Franco Manca now isn't it? After the Cherry Tree it was the early Craft Beer place - "The Draft House"