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Here we go again. The world reports flu figures anuallly. The average deaths from flu each year form ALL of those reports going back decades is 500,000. I have linked you to those annual reports before. Stop playing games. It is getting very tedious now.

TE44, people suddenly getting ill and filling ICU wards with a novel virus IS proof of a pandemic. I ask you again, because you have never actually answered the question, how many people have to flood hospitals and die before you define a pandemic? A million globally have already died (twice the annual death rate of flu in 9 months), but that it seems is not enough for you. This is the first time a global pandemic has been mitigated in this way, with restrictions and lockdowns and mass ongoing testing, monitoring and mitigation. But the process has been used on local levels for other smaller pandemics. So it is not an unknown science. It is clear, that if you let this virus spread freely, so that most people get it, more people will end up in ICU and more people will die. On the ongoing malarky around data collection, this is always going to be fraught with difficulties unless every person is tested and with a test that is almost 100 percent accurate. The issue with the government approach is their insistence that tracking and tracing is centrally organised, over running a localised system. They are wedded to big contracts to their favoured contractors in other words, over using a system that is known to work much better and gives resources to local authorities and local health trusts. And for that, they can not be forgiven.

Nowhere does it say he has been sacked, nor is Sue asking for that to happen. Clear enough for you?

Everything you post points to the overall conspiracy you believe in, New World Order, false data, a big plot to ruin the economy and impoverish us all. All of the cranks you site, and they are cranks, are part of that narrative. And yes, I have qualification to challenge any of the science that ANY of these so called sources you point to cite.

You are very predictable TE44. Look at the site you are linking to. 'Description: The Centre for Research on Globalisation (CRG) is is a Montreal-based independent research and media group of progressive writers, academics and activists who are critical of globalisation and the New World Order.' In other words, just about as biased a narrative as one can find. As for Dr Heiko Schoning, he is another one deliberately lying to you about the science.

I don't know how else the message can be got through to those who flout the current regulations in this way. 10k is a lot of money to most people to be fair, but no, will never equal the value of a life. Somewhere along the way, the messaging has gone wrong. Young people who fail to see that although they may be at low risk of dying, they need to be part of the effort to stop the spread. It is the two week incubation period that I think needs to be emphasised, but of course, that has the danger of terrifying other people from going anywhere near others at all. I think every government is struggling with getting the balance right, and people have to take responsibility for their own behaviour too.

And there you go again, making stuff up. Yet not a single person in Biden's team has tested positive. Funny that eh? Not to mention your complete inability to understand how the virus spreads it seems.

Robbie Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The email I provided disproves your statement. > > I'm not sure why you couldn't, and still can't > bring yourself to admit the fact that it's > questionable. > > Mind you, the way you seemingly laugh at the > theories involving children, aggressively > attacking those who mention it is alarming and > very suspicious. No it does not. And yes, I will laugh at 'theories' that are the invention of some bored armchair conspiracy theorists, whether they involve children or not. So will most people who understand the difference between that and credible corroborated evidence. Read this yet? https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-65000-hot-dogs/ Need any more links that show the pizzagate theory for the nonsense it is, or are you going to double down yet again?

This is for you Robbie, Save yourself before it is too late. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-65000-hot-dogs/

So that is a yes then. Everything is a conspiracy to you. The only fact here, is that most of Trump's campaign team, went into active campaigning with complete disregard for the advice sensible people have been following for months, and low and behold, caught the virus. That should be perfectly easy to understand.

What evidence? You have provided nothing! And you can ditch the troll reverse psychology too. You come onto a forum and try to claim that some ridiculous nonsense about pizza and hotdogs dreamed up by Trump sycophants implicates innocent people in criminal acts, and dare to ask me for evidence to disprove you? There are accounts in existence for everything spent by every President and government office. Had it ever occurred to you that catering bills for the government runs in millions? No of course it hadn't. You are so far into the rabbit hole you have lost all grasp on reality. That you then double down when called out on it is just embarrassing for you.

And so what? That is what a virus does, jumps from person to person. Some people can be even completely asymptomatic and shed huge loads of virus, and that is precisely why all the stuff about social distancing, masks and washing hands is in play. But for some reason, a whole bunch of people at the Whitehouse think none of that applies to them, and yes, that may also include some visitors from the media. In that case, what did you think was going to happen once Trump and his team started active campaigning? Going to rallies? Engaging with a wider public? Do you really think an invisible virus was going to say 'hey boys, don't touch the President and his team'. Do you ever stop seeing conspiracies in anything?

Robbie, this is just getting silly now. In no way is Obama involved with, or ever has been involved with, the trafficking of children. Stop embarrassing yourself.

Given that half the top people in the campaign team are now testing positive John L, it presents some major problems for the campaign. One other is also in hospital, so even if Trump pulls through (easily or otherwise), if anyone else dies or experiences serious illness, there will be major consequences for the campaign. These are people who played down every stage and facet of this pandemic, and Trump himself has been just disrespectful at times. Will they change direction in their messaging now? We shall see.

Just to add EDguy, that the nonsense about Wayfair furniture, is directly evolved from the nonsense about pizza deliveries in the John Pedosta emails. That is where it started and given that it is wikileaks that leaked those emails, every conspiracy theorists favourite go to source, it becomes pretty easy to follow the trajectory of these cults. Also typical of cults, is the obsession with symbolism and secret signs, another facet that pervades the Q Anon cult.

As with any crime, there needs to be hard corroborated evidence before anything can be said to had definitely happened. Sure there are times where grounds for suspicion are strong but lacking that crucial evidence to prosecute. With conspiracy theories though, there is often a ridiculous element to the argument, that in no form constitutes what can be considered as strong or hard evidence. What baffles the rest of us, is how some people are so willing to believe that stuff. The John Podesta emails are a case in point. They are simply the correspondence of a campaign team working for Clinton during the presidential race. All they reveal is where Clinton was given advance notification of audience questions in local debates, just as Trump's team was tipped of by Fox of the debate questions in one of the head to heads. This is why he has so many smart answers prepared. There was none of that with Biden. but I digress. So yes, those emails just gave an insight into the advantages a campaign team was able to gain. But they also mention pizza a lot and other fast food deliveries, because guess what, campaign teams work pretty much 24/7 during an election, and that means lots of takeaway food. But some cultist in the Q Anon world decided that the word pizza was in reality code for delivery of children for abuse. Complete fantasy. That Robbie then cited that in a post above, is an example of how entrenched that lunacy is. That complete fiction is stated as fact, or pointing to something dark or criminal, when in fact it was exactly what it said it was, ordering pizza!

Says the person who listed key components of Q Anon to make some argument of a conspiracy in play. You fool no-one Robbie. You also know perfectly well that Q Anon is an invention of a hardcore Trump fan group, but you are so deep into it that you can not see truth from fantasy anymore. That you also can not tell the difference between a video shot on a gimbal, and one using a locked off tripod is also telling ;)

You better hope he doesn't die Robbie. But I am sure you will have some conspiracy theory up your sleeve to explain that too. Get your head out of the Q Anon bubble. There is a real world out there where people really do get ill (most of the campaign team from the Whitehouse in fact). I suggest you start living in it.

If you say so Robbie ;) EDguy, there is currently little research in to the psychology of those sucked into conspiracy theories (only one professor in the UK carries out any in depth research into that currently) mainly because in the past, those things have tended to go hand in hand with cult psychology and most of the research has gone into that area, with anyone outside of any cult (immediate friends and family excepted) being largely unaffected. Social media has presented a new dynamic that warrants research though. In many ways, there are similarities with cults, in that someone, or something acts as a figurehead, that draws vulnerable people in. What has been seen with social media, is how fragmentation of wild ideas can inflate into a never ending spiral, referred to as the rabbit hole, and leading to a psychosis that poses wider questions around mental health. It is the easy accessibility to networks of that stuff that has become the problem and indeed, normally rational thinkers are now being drawn in at the fringes, questioning things they should be logically able to reason on, and dismiss at any other time. In my opinion, conspiracy theories operate like dates with a narcissist (and it is no accident either that pretty much all cult leaders have themselves been pronounced on the spectrum of NPD). The conspiracy will tell you what you want to believe, small things, so that you feel you have found the answers you have always been looking for. From there it will suck you in, until you feel you can not live without it. Finally it will leave you questioning what you believe about everything, and be incredibly hard to leave. Your world is turned upside down. I would not be surprised to find elements of co-dependency in the psychology of those drawn into conspiracy cults. And Q Anon absolutely is a conspiracy cult.

And so now you are making stuff up Clutterqueen. I suggest you read my reply to you on the other thread and respond to that in a sensible way.

Clutterqueen, what if that person knocking on your door is couching, or sneezing as they grab your crate for delivery? As we get into cold and flu season, the argument for wearing masks is going to grow if covid spreads exponentially off the back of that. And also, it is worth pointing out that a lot of those using home delivery are doing so precisely because they belong to higher risk groups. If anything, that makes going the extra mile a case of common sense.

You forgot to mention pizzagate EDguy. Where every time John Podesta mentioned pizza and hot dogs in those leaked emails (because campaign teams order a lot of pizza and fast food to get them through the many late nights they work) the Q Anon cult insisted it was code for ordering children for sexual abuse! One guy, drove across states, tooled to the teeth with automatic weapons, to a pizza parlour, to find and rescue the abused kids he was convinced were being trafficked from there. It was all nonsense, fed to him by other cultists. Fortunately no-one was hurt but it highlights how dangerous these conspiracy fantasies are in the minds of some. You only have to look at the comments below any youtube news clip on Trump's covid progress to see how deranged these people really are.

If you say so Robbie ;) Btw, pedophilia is the sexual attraction to prepubescent children, not post pubescent teenagers. Epstein may well have been trafficking and abusing under aged girls, but that is sexual abuse of a minor, not pedophilia. The difference matters, because different countries have different ages of consent. In Austria, Germany and Italy for example, the age of consent is just 14. If you are going to throw words like pedophilia around, at least understand what they mean first.

I shouldn't laugh but that is funny Cat :D Live update from his doctors at the moment and the interesting thing is the level of detail around his symptoms and the various immune responses that could happen and when. I say interesting because there is an unknown percentage of hardcore Trump support that thinks this virus is a hoax. I wonder what they make of it all. Another Whitehouse advisor has tested positive meanwhile. Seems as though anyone who was at the party recently is going to test positive.

If you listen to the short video he made at the Whitehouse before leaving for the hospital, you can hear he is ill. Moving him to a fully equipped hospital makes sense given that his is POTUS and how quickly patients of his age can deteriorate. There will be a moment where he suddenly gets worse, or suddenly gets better. That seems to be how this virus goes. I personally can not see why the Republican party would go down this route for electoral gain. The last thing they wanted to be at the fore of the debate was the Pandemic.