Blah Blah

Agree with that too. Add with the UKIP fight and you really do wonder where the grown ups are. This is perhaps also the effect of coalition and slim majorities too though. All parties are in a state of confusion of how to get that all important majority of government. The Libdems are chasing their losses. Only the SNP are in the ascendancy, but there are signs they too have peaked. For too long now, the main parties have to sought to reflect what they think the people want to get elected - hence all those focus groups. Maybe Corbyn is right, that it is time for bold, well thought out policy, for the good of society (rather than the individual) again - even if he personally is missing the mark on what that policy needs to be.

Very good posts Jenny. I'd also add that turning on immigrants in times of difficulty is nothing new either. But when there are no longer any immigrants to attack, who then? The conservatives seem to have forgotten that almost half the electorate did NOT vote for Brexit and may well be shooting themselves in the foot with this rhetoric (and that for the most part is what it is as much of it will never get through parliament nor the lords into law). If only we had an opposition that could fill the void.

Could you imagine Woolfe at PMQ's? Telling May to take every difference of view outside? Not the first time we seen handbags at dawn in politics though.

I can't see him making a comeback into parliament. Which MP would step aside to give him a seat for example? He may come back as a special advisor etc. You also don't have to be an MP to hold some shadow parliamentary positions. I don't think the membership would have the appetite for it. I don't know where the electorate would stand on it though, given Corbyn's unpopularity.

It was apparently a spat over Woolfe's almost crossover to the tories, to which he said 'let's take it outside'. They did and he got knocked out. The tories who tried to seduce him are probably thankful of the lucky escape.

What are you on about Ryu? The thread title is about Peckham Rye, with a brief conversation about schooling. The Police are evicting the Dulwich site today. That's the end of it.

Sorry but you have brought it on yourself Peckham_Ryu. So now you hijack this thread looking for what? Sympathy for your totally unsubstantiated accusation? Scaffolding is usually alarmed for a good reason, ie, it gets stolen all the time, especially when it is not alarmed, and I would hazard a guess that those doing the stealing look exactly like scaffolders with a flatbed truck etc. Worse than that, you know you are being ridiculous.

Agreed Rendell. A more flexible educational solution may be the answer, which doesn't necessarily mean attending the nearest school for a few weeks at a time. Dave, to use your own terms, you are a c ock.

Penguin68 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > That's certainly true of Romany travellers (possibly originating in or around the Indus Valley), and to some extent > > of Irish travellers (itinerant tinsmiths - known as 'tinkers' a name now seen as insulting rather than descriptive) - > but it is less true of New Age Travellers - for whom this was a 20th century life-style choice. There is also the wider question of the value of education. Travelling communities don't live in the same constructs that we do. They have their own economies, and children mostly follow their parents into the same way of life. Their need for a formal education is not always going to be on a par with our kids - which may be anathema to us, but is perfectly ok to them.

You are too quick to call peoples views stupid Dave, and to belittle those that don't reflect yours. And when called out on it, you just keep going.

I agree binky. Dave seems to think that traveller children deserve no extra effort, because instead of seeing the life of their parents as a culture that goes back centuries, he sees it as a 'lifestyle choice' instead. It comes from the same place of prejudice that all prejudice against travellers comes from. What he seems to forget is that teachers already do go an extra mile to make sure that autistic children for example can have the same experience of education as everyone else. I wonder if Dave has a view on the disruption of autism, or he excuses it on the grounds no parent chooses to have an autistic child. So good disruption vs bad disruption then. Children deserving of effort vs children deserving of no effort. It's not a healthy outlook for anyone to have.

I live for the day that you, Dave, can respect a different view without labelling it as stupid or knee jerk. I'm sure you know the difference between hard and anecdotal evidence don't you?

Most classrooms contain children of mixed abilities and interest though. So this is a bit of a red herring. There are also people in jobs who move frequently and their children too. Do we worry about their levels of school attendance? Is changing school frequently bad for them too?

We could also stop selling arms to Saudi Arabia.

Corduroy is coming back into fashion. Primark have got it in.

That crane is to the left of Nunhead green, next to the new community centre. Saw the bits arriving for it as I left my house nearby this morning.

I agree Rendell. I increasingly cycle everywhere and make regular use of the cycle lanes both at Elephant and Vauxhall. Never see other cyclists anywhere but in them too. I also agree with your earlier comments about shared use of bus lanes with motorcyclists. Have never had any problem with that. Cars turning left accross me and buses rushing to overtake and pull into the bus stop ahead of me still continue to be the only menace I encounter.

Are there no official sites in Southwark any more for travellers?

It's an interesting concept regarding pedestrians and crossings. When I have my two kids with me, I always use a pedestrian crossing on busy and main roads - always. But when it is just me, I will cross anywhere if I think it's reasonably safe to do so. Why do we follow a guaranteed level of safety for our children, but not for ourselves? Also, if pedestrians ALWAYS used designated crossings, how might that affect the complacency of a driver?

I wouldn't read too much into delegate interactions to be fair. I also don't expect Andrew Neil to be anything but lukewarm. He will be the same with the Tory conference speeches. Both parties are in the sh*t right now, albeit for different reasons. The Tories are going to fight over grammar schools as much as they are brexit.

I blame the shoes.

I agree ???? and there was a lot to like in what he said. I just wonder though if it was lacking in a bold headline making knd of way. Teresa May has a way of making you feel like she's a safe pair of hands even if the stuff coming out of her mouth is rubbish. Corbyn hasn't got that.

Completely agree Otta. And she stood alongside many people who are now activists for Corbyn as well.

Kendall is too centrist for me (and for those Labour heartlands), but is a hard working MP all the same who has been unfairly attacked, just like any MP who dares to talk about the reality of winning a GE. My problem with the new left within the party is not so much their idealism, or even their optimism over fact, but their tendancy to see things in a bubble. The centrist MPs they attack, are a reflection of the centist constituencies they represent. There seems to be no acknowledgement of the part the character of a candidate plays in getting elected, especially within marginals. They are calling for deselection of people whose CLPs would never deselect them. I have this argument with them all the time.

There is no evidence that non voters can be pursuaded to start voting again, and I think it's risky to assume they would vote labour if they did anyway. When talking about young people, we are referring to 18-24 yr olds, not everyone under 35, but I take your point about the EU referendum. 64% of 18-24 yr olds voted, but 90% of the over 65's voted. A referendum where every vote counts is different than a GE though. Many non voters may not vote because their vote would make no difference in the constituency they live in. And swinging marginals, still remains the most effective way of winning an election. Scotland is not as simple to explain either. The SNP benifitted from a referendum bounce. The same will happen for UKIP, if May calls an early election. Corbyn's problem is in thinking a pacifist left movement will appeal to an electorate that has/ is swinging towards nationalism. I think even those on the left don't want to see Militant return (although Hatton is trying to rejoin the party). I think you make a good point about wanting change but being conservative with it. That is why radical political agendas never transform into electoral success in the UK. The electorate are broadly Conservative with a small C, and that's why the centre ground swing vote decides elections. Any idea that the failings of 30 years can be fixed overnight is hoping for too much and this I think is the faith many hard Corbynistas put in Jeremy. Sadly, they are going to be disappointed. Labour's best hope of forming government is probably in coalition with the SNP, and then everything will become about consensus. For all the things Jeremy might say, consensus is not one of his strong points.