Blah Blah

And I'm fed up of those who can't seperate the actions of a group of people locally from an entire cultural and/or ethnic group, and then call those of us that identify the obvious bigotry for what it is, self righteous. Here's a good analogy for you ChrisBeach. A met Police Officer once reported that most street robbers were black teenagers (and that may be true in his small patch) but does that mean most black teenagers are street robbers? No-one in their right mind would be stupid enough to say it does and yet, when it comes to travellers, some people here, feel the need to defend such flawed logic! The truth is that most people commenting here have never lived anywhere near, let alone among, enough traveller communities (Irish, Roma or otherwise) to know what is and isn't typical behaviour, anti-social, criminal or otherwise.

I don't think anyone has excused flytipping or breaking into private land ED. The problem is that the conversation has gone beyond this in one or two posts. And I don't know why you are singling out Sue either. You are the one that wrote 'Its the thieving messy 99% that give the 1% a bad name.' and that was your opening comment! You deserve to be called out on that.

Jeremy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Blah Blah Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Could you imagine Woolfe at PMQ's? Telling May > to take every difference of view outside? > > My money would be on TM... Especially in those heels!

I think there's two issues here. There's tarring all travellers and there's what is happening here in relation to these specific travellers. Fly tipping, is not unique to travellers, but it is happening with these ones and that is a problem. It's illegal, and it's quite clear who the culprits are. It's quite upsetting to see the park now being used as a dump too, and I'm told two more vans have turned up there this morning. I don't know what the procedure is for evicting them from the park, and I'm guessing the terms are different for public vs private land, but surely some action can be taken immediately in regards to the fly tipping? Do the police not have powers there?

This is something that local councillors are aware of and are already complaining to the bus companies about.

And I think most people don't even know that is the case Wondercat. It was snuck in under the public radar, like so many things.

Again Jenny is spot on. This is a deliberate attempt to grab votes lost to UKIP by the Tories. When May talks about being for the working class, she means the working class that have swung to UKIP (because she knows that Labour are doing nothing to win those votes). There is no way that Amber Rudd will ever get an act of parliament forcing companies to produce lists of migrant workers through the Lords - and she may not even get it through parliament. The parallels to the right wing tyrannies of the past are just too ominous - don't thnk I've quite invoked Godwin's Law there but... :D

You have no way of knowing what a seceond vote would result in Teddyboy anymore than any of us. I think a fair section of those who voted to leave would also be repulsed by the anti-immigrant language emanating from the government, along with the numerous attacks that occured since. This is not about how the vote went anyway (unless you are arguing that half the population voted for Brexit on the issue of immgration - something that many leave voters deny btw). It's about common decency, something I would like to think that most people would aspire to. Targetting immigrants who are already here and working for example, is not about controlling the numbers we allow in, it's persecution of those already here perfectly legally. This is why I and others are speaking out. It sends out absolutely the wrong signal.

Is it just me, or are this years participants more inept than ever?

Agree with that too. Add with the UKIP fight and you really do wonder where the grown ups are. This is perhaps also the effect of coalition and slim majorities too though. All parties are in a state of confusion of how to get that all important majority of government. The Libdems are chasing their losses. Only the SNP are in the ascendancy, but there are signs they too have peaked. For too long now, the main parties have to sought to reflect what they think the people want to get elected - hence all those focus groups. Maybe Corbyn is right, that it is time for bold, well thought out policy, for the good of society (rather than the individual) again - even if he personally is missing the mark on what that policy needs to be.

Very good posts Jenny. I'd also add that turning on immigrants in times of difficulty is nothing new either. But when there are no longer any immigrants to attack, who then? The conservatives seem to have forgotten that almost half the electorate did NOT vote for Brexit and may well be shooting themselves in the foot with this rhetoric (and that for the most part is what it is as much of it will never get through parliament nor the lords into law). If only we had an opposition that could fill the void.

Could you imagine Woolfe at PMQ's? Telling May to take every difference of view outside? Not the first time we seen handbags at dawn in politics though.

I can't see him making a comeback into parliament. Which MP would step aside to give him a seat for example? He may come back as a special advisor etc. You also don't have to be an MP to hold some shadow parliamentary positions. I don't think the membership would have the appetite for it. I don't know where the electorate would stand on it though, given Corbyn's unpopularity.

It was apparently a spat over Woolfe's almost crossover to the tories, to which he said 'let's take it outside'. They did and he got knocked out. The tories who tried to seduce him are probably thankful of the lucky escape.

What are you on about Ryu? The thread title is about Peckham Rye, with a brief conversation about schooling. The Police are evicting the Dulwich site today. That's the end of it.

Sorry but you have brought it on yourself Peckham_Ryu. So now you hijack this thread looking for what? Sympathy for your totally unsubstantiated accusation? Scaffolding is usually alarmed for a good reason, ie, it gets stolen all the time, especially when it is not alarmed, and I would hazard a guess that those doing the stealing look exactly like scaffolders with a flatbed truck etc. Worse than that, you know you are being ridiculous.

Agreed Rendell. A more flexible educational solution may be the answer, which doesn't necessarily mean attending the nearest school for a few weeks at a time. Dave, to use your own terms, you are a c ock.

Penguin68 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > That's certainly true of Romany travellers (possibly originating in or around the Indus Valley), and to some extent > > of Irish travellers (itinerant tinsmiths - known as 'tinkers' a name now seen as insulting rather than descriptive) - > but it is less true of New Age Travellers - for whom this was a 20th century life-style choice. There is also the wider question of the value of education. Travelling communities don't live in the same constructs that we do. They have their own economies, and children mostly follow their parents into the same way of life. Their need for a formal education is not always going to be on a par with our kids - which may be anathema to us, but is perfectly ok to them.

You are too quick to call peoples views stupid Dave, and to belittle those that don't reflect yours. And when called out on it, you just keep going.

I agree binky. Dave seems to think that traveller children deserve no extra effort, because instead of seeing the life of their parents as a culture that goes back centuries, he sees it as a 'lifestyle choice' instead. It comes from the same place of prejudice that all prejudice against travellers comes from. What he seems to forget is that teachers already do go an extra mile to make sure that autistic children for example can have the same experience of education as everyone else. I wonder if Dave has a view on the disruption of autism, or he excuses it on the grounds no parent chooses to have an autistic child. So good disruption vs bad disruption then. Children deserving of effort vs children deserving of no effort. It's not a healthy outlook for anyone to have.

I live for the day that you, Dave, can respect a different view without labelling it as stupid or knee jerk. I'm sure you know the difference between hard and anecdotal evidence don't you?

Most classrooms contain children of mixed abilities and interest though. So this is a bit of a red herring. There are also people in jobs who move frequently and their children too. Do we worry about their levels of school attendance? Is changing school frequently bad for them too?

We could also stop selling arms to Saudi Arabia.

Corduroy is coming back into fashion. Primark have got it in.