Santerme

StraferJack Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I don't recall rubber bullets being all that > succesful in Ireland Oh yes they were

Which Met police officer said Duggan fired first? Or was that the media? Genuine question!

What? I have had a great day too, a normal day, which is what is supposed to happen I thought.

Why, if he even threatened the officers and it turned out to be a replica, the police were fully justified in opening fire.

DinkyToy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Armed soldiers - no. > > Soldiers with helmet, visor, sheild and baton - > yes. Well, personally I hope this is never allowed to happen

DinkyToy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > First off, it is NOT entirely unreasonable to call > in the Army. Unless things have changed since my > days, they are trained in crowd control, and can > be used as first defense working aloneside and > under the command of the Police. Pure numbers of > men themselves can have a calming effect. > > Training for deployment to places like Iraq and > Afghanistan nowadays includes crowd control > elements, and training for deployment to NI > contains loads. > > @Twinkaloo - yep. I'll be alongside you. I left in 2006 and yes training in riot control is still practised. However, soldiers on the streets is not the answer.

Jeremy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Magpie Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Couple of points to touch on here - water > cannons, > > rubber bullets etc are not authorised for use > on > > mainland Britain > > Not sure about water cannons. Baton rounds are > used regularly by UK police, and would be entirely > appropriate in a situation where a large mob is > charging at police and throwing bricks/bottles. Correct, baton rounds are available to the police in England, since 2001/2, I believe, and have been used operationally.

It's obvious we need to send in an elite team of social workers.

Well think about it....and to give perspective I have done 4 tours of NI.....these youths are mobile and are not going to be around when the water cannon arrives, which is going to make it a fairly redundant tool. I would import 1000 PSNI officers seed them throughout the Met area with the riot trained police and I am quite sure the situation would be swiftly resolved. Snatch squads to take out ring leaders. I would not like to see and I doubt the Govt would sanction the Army being deployed.

Tarot Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > What is evident is the serious lack of police,so > using the army would make up the shortfall. > This is anarchy no other exscuse,fuelled by the > internet and followed through by a load of stupid > fools who are probably drug fuelled and pot > cocky. > They do wear track suits and trainers, thats why > those sports shops and chemist are being > targeted. > These uneducated gang fodder will always be a > problem. > Find out whose involved,cut their benifits off, > throw them out of their council houses,cancel > their college media grants > cancel their carnivals. > These people who disregard the areas they live in > should be disregarded for any benifits other > people have to work for. > The goverment should get their fingers out of > there axxxs, stop dismantling the country and > remember P.C Blakeloch . > Rubber bullets. Goodness gracious.

DinkyToy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > @Santerme and @Andican > > I've got 25 years of weapons experience including > air rifle, shotgun, pistol, light and heavy > machine gun, rifle AND non-lethal. > > I carried a non-lethal baton gun as well as my > personal weapon for a total of 18 months, have > fired one in anger and they can kill if you hit > the target in the head or chest (or if you use a > duracell battery instead of the plastic round - > allegedly...). > > If you hit them in the stomach from about 35 to 40 > metres then they WILL sit on their arse and not > think about anything else for a while. Then we have similar experience I believe. Bean bag guns just seem a little futile in a firefight.

LadyDeliah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I think this article is quite good in explaining > the anger some people might be feeling, without > justifying the way they have expressed it: > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/0 > 8/tottenham-riots-not-unexpected I think the fact they didn't bother to loot Waterstones is the clincher.

Gimme Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Yeah. Their fault for not being numerous > enough... > They are probably reluctance to shoot people at > present too. Or shove someone too hard!

Well having carried a gun for over 23 years, I know which weapon I would prefer in a gun battle. I have no experience of non lethal weapons such as the bean gun, so cannot comment.

It looks as though every disaffected youth is intent on making their feelings known about the general economic malaise. By increasing their collection of plasma TVs.

Why not just Google IPCC and have a look?

LadyDeliah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The initial riot outside the police station which > was a reaction to the death of Duggan and the > alledged assault by the police on a young woman. > > > The further rioting later on was reportedly mainly > angry young men. > > The filling of cars with loot appears to have been > mainly older people not actually connected to the > battles with the police. > > So I would suggest there were three sets of people > in all of this with three sets of general > motivations. All of which were unlawful, in spite of the 'alleged' assault. You are getting to the point where the sublime has descended to the ridiculous. The baseline on these incidents is only the investigators will have the full information and, in time, so shall we.

Those poor under-educated and societally disconnected youths have expressed their desire to commit crimes against their own neighbours and then extended that outwards via the aptly described social networking sites. It is true anyone with a brain can see the gravy train being jumped on. My heart bleeds for them, that is my cynicism coming out.

He well could have been wrestling with the officer and the officer's gun went off, the point is I don't know, you don't know. We can create all kind of permutations of scenarios. My problem is this need to blame the police which is a little obsessive. Wait for the IPCC to report, then we will all know. Although I am sure if it does not fit your view, it will have been a whitewash of some kind.

Well at least I have a roof!

Fabricio the Guido Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I am all for an investigation but not for the > misinformation often used to manage the news by > the police as it allows ill informed arm chair > theorist to spout abject nonsense in the name of > law and "order". Deliberate emphasis on order > there as the law requires that everyone is > innocent until proven guilty in a court of law and > the problem with proactive policing is it denies > criminals their day in court. No wait, am missing > something? But we are all in the same armchair at the moment, aren't we?

You are on roll today.

Fabricio the Guido Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Apparently, the bullet recovered from the police > radio was a police issued bullet. This criminal > clearly misfired before shooting himself. In south > Africa during the terrorist days, the > insurrectionists used to fling themselves down the > stairs all the time with their hands cuffed behind > their backs. Seen this sort of thing before and > it's all too familiar. Tory govt and riots go > together like social upheaval and economic > downturns. Well that's cleared that up, call off the investigation, start a multi-million pound inquiry and rain compensation down on Mr Duggan's family.

ratty Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Looting in Brixton last night. WABOFC! Class Reunion?

LadyDeliah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Death by shooting doesn't seem to have gone down > though. > > http://inquest.gn.apc.org/website/graphs/police_sh > ootings.gif You are kidding, right. I live five months of the year in North America those statistics would represent a very small town in Iowa.