EU Debate - I am Voting to Leave

[natty01295]

EU Debate - I am Voting To Leave

[uncleglen]

Me too- on a very serious note the influence of the RC church is a massive worry - although the influence of the catholic church is mercifully on the wane in Poland (for a start).

[ratty]

Leave then. We won't miss you!

[rendelharris]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> Me too- on a very serious note the influence of

> the RC church is a massive worry - although the

> influence of the catholic church is mercifully on

> the wane in Poland (for a start).

Wow. This debate has really brought the whackadoodles out, hasn't it! Vote out or the nuns will take over! The two largest players in the EU apart from ourselves, France and Germany, are entirely secular and have the primacy of secular law enshrined in their constitution, as does the EU. This is the most vermillion of red herrings.

[uncleglen]

It's all a front

[rendelharris]

The EU's a front for dem Papes taking over? Well thanks for the tipoff, I shall visit my man in Jermyn Street and order a brand new tinfoil topper first thing tomorrow.

[hammerman]

?

[Louisa]

I think the predictable swing back to the status quo is now happening. A repeat of the Scottish referendum. A narrow win for remain, but not convincingly enough to shut the brexit argument up forever.

Louisa.

[rendelharris]

You're very probably right Louisa, it will entirely depend on the colour of government we get I think; if the Tories get in again in 2020 there will almost certainly be enough backbenchers agitating for another vote to make it happen (or indeed if the vote is really close - most commentators seem to think Cameron needs at least a 7.5% win to hold his place). I wonder how long the EU will put up with continuous referenda before saying they've had enough and applying the boot themselves? From their point of view the turmoil and uncertainty we're causing can't be very satisfactory.

[Blah Blah]

I agree on a narrow win with the debate going on beyond too. The Tory party may well end up with Gove or Boris leading, but I don't see the promise of another referendum any time soon either.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Why has another thread been started?

[TheArtfulDogger]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> Why has another thread been started?

Maybe because the thread voting to remain is biased towards remaining whilst this one hopefully counterbalances it ...

Just a theory mind..

[JohnL]

Maybe the government could ignore the result of this referendum. Are referendums legally binding in the constitution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_in_the_United_Kingdom

"Referendums are not legally binding"

Just um and ah a bit and then go on as usual.

[Loz]

JohnL Wrote:

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> Maybe the government could ignore the result of this referendum. Are referendums legally binding

> in the constitution.

This referendum has no legal power at all. The only was to trigger Brexit is via an act of Parliament. There is an expectation that Parliament will follow the will of the referendum, though.

[Jules-and-Boo]

A majority vote to leave would have to be endorsed by a vote in Parliament, so not automatic.

An obvious point that is not coming up is how useless our own Government is - perhaps a REALLY radical solution to our problems with EU would be to solve our problems at home first.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Whatever the outcome, I really think the decision will have to be final. It would be madness to have yet another referendum anytime in the foreseeable future

[LondonMix]

I've spoken to two senior people in the financial world who honestly believe that the UK won't leave the EU with a leave vote. That instead the two years will be used to negotiate concessions.

I really hope that's not the case as it would be a huge blow for democracy. I am in favor of Remain but I am also in favor of democracy.

Apparently in Cameron's speech he said this decision is irreversible, whatever it is.

[Blah Blah]

He said that leaving the EU would be irreversible. Meaning that we would not be able to rejoin the EU with the concessions we already have on things like shenghen and the euro if our economy went belly up and we realised leaving was a huge mistake.

[LondonMix]

Oh, thanks for the clarification. He is right of course. Various EU leaders have publicly come out and said as much which is why the Leave Campaign has shifted to talking about trading with the EU under WTO rules. Of course that would be a much worse trading position for the UK but as least that's realistic. The UK would need to establish its own membership terms in the WTO but that's possible within the 2 year time frame for finalizing Brexit.

[DulwichFox]

If we Leave and it goes Tits up .. It will be down to us..

If we Stay and it goes Tits up .. It will be out of our control..

People talk about people leaving The U.K. to live in Europe.. And Europeans coming to live here..

Well poor UK. citizens do not go and live in Europe.. France. Belgium. Italy. Germany..

Poor Europeans come to live and work in The U.K. because wages are 3-4 times higher

and many send money home to support their families..

There is a huge housing shortage in the U.K. and those who embrace mass migration should perhaps

open their doors and house 2-3 migrants in their spare rooms.

This would be a genuine gesture of their intent to stay and help out..

DulwichFox

[*Bob*]

DulwichFox Wrote:

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citizens do not go and live in

> Europe.. France. Belgium. Italy. Germany..

Unless you count the 1.2 million who have done.

I guess 1.2 million is just too small a number to mention.

[*Bob*]

You did say 'poor' uk citizens, reading again.

my bad

But UK people do live in other EU countries in sizeable numbers - it's not totally a one-way street. Not everyone who leaves is rich and everyone who arrives is poor.

[Loz]

DulwichFox Wrote:

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> Well poor UK. citizens do not go and live in Europe.. France. Belgium. Italy. Germany..

Maybe, but I reckon we export more unproductive people - how many retired people head to Europe? Apparently there are over half a million in Spain alone.

[DulwichFox]

Loz Wrote:

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> DulwichFox Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Well poor UK. citizens do not go and live in

> Europe.. France. Belgium. Italy. Germany..

>

> Maybe, but I reckon we export more unproductive

> people - how many retired people head to Europe?

> Apparently there are over half a million in Spain

> alone.

Well .. I would of thought they have done their bit for this country in their time..

Let them enjoy the Sun in their final years..

Foxy

[LondonMix]

Yep, the immigrants (rich or poor) who come here come here to work. They are young, of working age and with very high levels of employment and pay lots of tax.

If the population drops following Brexit who on earth do you think is going to fund the massive welfare state costs of the NHS and retirees? Without immigration of young people to Britain, the UK would be in a demographic downward spiral with significantly larger funding gaps for public services and the state pension.

Anyhow, that is why immigration won't be curtailed even after Brexit. The immigration the UK can control (i.e. non-EU) is higher than EU immigration anyhow. The country obviously needs to let in the people who are coming.