BCG Vaccination.

[ClareC]

Would be grateful for thoughts/views on this? Have received a letter inviting me to have my 3 month baby vaccinated next week. Seems a barbaric vaccination to have so young and I understand it is no longer done nationally. London being an area that does have occurances of TB mainly amongst certain communities, hence the vaccine being offered.

Thanks

Clare

[ryedalema]

My four month old has just had hers and we've had no side effects that I've seen anyway. I'm not sure of the pros and cons of having it this young (it only lasts 10 years or something doesn't it) but at least from a scarring point of view she won't pick at it and her skins so young it'll probably heal really well - and may even disappear entirely (hope against hope)!

[nikki73]

Vaccinations are such a personal thing. i had my baby's done at 3 weeks because we were travelling to a high risk zone. It started oozing and scabbing two months later and still is now - she's 6 months old so i'd agree with ryedalema on the picking point. I think i also read somewhere that if they have it done young there's less risk of scarring. my husband and family all had it done within the 1st month and none of them have a scar. My daughter didn't have any side effect but i found the experience unpleasant but then the HV who did it is not the most caring person (known as the witch in my household...).

[The Nappy Lady]

Had both mine done at around 9 months old, it is done in this area because of greater risk of infection due to high ethic mix/immigrants I understand.

To be honest, of all the vaccinations they had this one had the least affect upon either of them, really doesn't seem to cause any reaction at all, and as ryedalema says I think leaves less of a scar if done at this age, doesn't get knocked etc.

It is a very personal thing, but if you are generally pro innoculation I'd go for it.

Molly

[Mellors]

I had both of mine done at about 9 months with no problems.

[Sanne Panne]

I read somewhere (nice way to start a post I know) that if you haven't had one as a baby you need to get two BCG jabs close to secondary school age no matter where in the UK you are. If (!) this is true it may be worth getting it now - you supposedly (again, note the disclaimers) get less scarring/stiffness the younger you do it.

M never had an adverse reaction to any vaccination (we even had her vaccinated for chicken pox privately because jabs are nothing to her whereas catching the disease would be a massive pain, especially if it happens when the new baby is small) so I can't tell whether she had a different reaction to BCG - she had no reaction as with her other jabs.

The risk of actually getting TB is very low, even if you live in a higher risk area like Southwark - from the bit of research I did it seems that you are only really likely to get it through repeated/extended exposure to someone with the disease (e.g. a relative or a nursery worker). That lady coughing on the bus isn't going to pass TB on to your child. And if your daughter decides to become a doctor in a high risk country one day she can always get the jab then so you can probably control your risk to an extent.

Sorry for the unscientific answer, please double check everything I've said but they may be useful points to look at when deciding whether and when to get the jab.

M does still have a dark red spot on her skin 15 months after the event (she was vaccinated at 8 months, age was purely based on the length of the waiting list) so I guess she'll have the scar one day (I was never vaccinated, they abolished BCG in Holland back in the late '60s due to the extremely low risk of catching TB there). I was also a bit uncomfortable about the whole thing with the risk being so low but then "just did it".

Good luck with your decision :)

[Ruth_Baldock]

Hi Clare,

Same as Ryedalema, had my 4 1/2 month old son 'done' on Friday and it was absolutely fine- he cried less than he did with the 8, 12 and 16 week jabs and had no side effects at all (including not sleeping a lot which is his usual 'reaction' to his vaccinations...)

Once the jab has been done, it lasts for the rest of their life, which is a plus. I was in two minds about it, but now it's done, I'm pleased we did it, so would say it's worth a few seconds of tears.

[poppy]

Just to play devil's advocate, the consequences of many parents choosing not to have their child vaccinated decreases herd immunity, and therefore the prevalence of the disease can increase putting everyone (especially unvaccinated children) at greater risk. For example, measles and mumps are both more prevalent since people started refusing the MMR. So there are wider reasons to take into account when deciding whether to take up a vaccine, other than side effects which are generally very small, and overall considered to be less of a risk than the disease itself (otherwise it wouldn't be offered).

[gwod]

On the whole, I am pro innoculations, but having researched BCG a bit a decided not to go ahead with it for my children. It is quite hard to catch TB unless you spend fairly proloned time time close to sufferers ( for example sleeping in hostals or as a nurse...) also, the efficacy of the innoculation is not that high - only between 50% and 70%, ( http://priory.com/cmol/bcg.htm) compared with the standard 95% upwards of most other vaccinations. Also, if you do contract the disease, having had the innoculation can obstruct diagnosis. The protection only lasts for 15 years or so - so I decided to give it a miss unless we ever looked to be in more danger of catching it, at which point I would reasses.

What a lot of decisions we have to make for our little ones!

[ClareC]

Thanks all :-)

Those whose babies have had it, was their arm at all sore looking afterwards? If so for how long? It's not the vaccination itself I have a problem with ( although agree it is debatable whether necessary), it's that I is so young, and it helpfully coincides with the week she has her 16 week jabs!

It's good to hear that everyone has had a positive experience with no negative effects.

[veryseriousgirl]

Hi Clare,

Our daughter had the jab at 10 weeks and, while she still has a red spot on her shoulder (she's 5 months old now), we didn't see any other problems or side effects.

[crystal7]

E had hers at 9 months (that's when we were invited due to waiting lists). The actual jab seemed to upset her a little more than the ones she'd had previously but there were no side effects at all (was told there aren't as many side effects with BCG due to it being injected under the skin rather than into the muscle- don't quote me on this!). There is still a visible scab there 6 months on and it did weep/bleed a few times soon after she'd had it done but didn't bother her at all- just us! Have heard it's not very effective as gwod says but I'd rather be safe than sorry especially with E in childcare 3 days a week. Good luck whatever you decide!

[The Nappy Lady]

Yes, mine both have small scars from the jab (at 5 years old and 18 months old), but neither showed any signs of discomfort in the arm following the jabs, even when the blister came up (which is expected and totally normal).

I remember when they did them at secondary school the 'game' was for people to punch you in the arm where you'd had your BCG which was awful and not good when it was scabby or blistered, so very glad they now do it when they are little and not exposed to the cruelty of teenagers!

Molly

Edited to add - I remember being sad about my 'perfect' baby having to end up with a scar at the time....but they really are not bad at all. Did ask if they could inject it into the leg instead but was told it is a 'world wide standard' to put into the right(?) arm - can't check as I never needed it, but think it is the right arm - so no choice in the matter. Looking back now, having gone through assorted toddler and pre-school dramas, scabby knees, falls from trees and the like I can see the funny side of worrying about a tiny injection scar on the arm if that helps at all (probably not I know).

[Sanne Panne]

Actual discomforts on/around the day were 1. the 10-20 seconds after the needle was pulled out (supposedly it stings a bit due to the fact it's hypodermal rather than intramuscular); 2. the plaster coming off (I'm an evil mum who removes plasters after the first bath rather than let them come off naturally); 3. one of the times I squeezed a bit of pus out a few weeks after the jab (sorry for the yucky detail) which I guess I shouldn't have done).

No arm stiffness that I could tell. M was 8 months so already fairly mobile - I think I would have noticed stiffness (it was done in her left arm Molly, as you implied it makes sense to do that with most people being right handed... How odd... could your HV have got it wrong? Or did mine not follow protocol?).

[Belle]

if you're worried about the timing you can easily postpone for a bit - I had to postpone several times as my little boy kept geting colds etc and I wanted to wait till he was well - so in the end was a couple of months after we'd initially had the appt for.

Am pretty sure his is on his left arm Molly though it's one of those thingsg that now I'm t hinking about I can't quite remember (he's sleeping so can't check!). Like others, was fine for a while then wept a bit, but showed doctor and she said they just do that from time to time for quite a wee while after the injection. Doesn't cause him any problems and he didn't react at all to the jab itself.

[The Nappy Lady]

Oh gosh don't go by me - am no where near my children right now so couldn't check when I posted....now you say it I think left arm more likely....anyway, it has go be in the arm, and the same side for everyone because they check for the scar if you are ill overseas etc. so I was told.

As a mother I should surely know exactly where every mark is on my children, but now realise I am totally rubbish LOL, sorry, my brain left the building with the final pregnancy I think!

M

[prdarling]

DS1 was done at 6 months (as we were off to high risk area)- zero scar, zero side effects - not a pin prick in sight

DS2 was done at 8 months ish when we got the call from the HV. It was red, angry, sore and oozed unpleasantness for months. I don't think it bothered him that much but I fet so bad for him as it did look sore. He has a circular pea sized scar which is still pink (he's now 2 years 8 months)

Would prob do again for imaginary 3rd child...

[littleEDfamily]

I slightly regret having our daughter BCGed, as I agree with GWOD that TB is pretty difficult to contract, and (completely superficial I know) I hate the scar it has left (hers isn't even that bad - I've seen some corkers!).

At the time as a sleep deprived new mum, I did feel pressured into it - these decisions are especially hard when in that 'newish baby foggy state'. Of all the vaccinations, she cried the most at this one (but that's not why I might not choose to do for future babies - helps to be prepared though!)

[Smiler]

Info about the vaccine: http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/BCG-Vaccination.htm

My daughter had this done at 9 months (which was just when the appointment came through), no probs, had a little weeping scab for ages and now (aged 2) has a little round red scar, which presume will fade to white at some stage.

[Sanne Panne]

Smiler Wrote:

> had a little weeping scab for ages and now (aged

> 2) has a little round red scar, which presume will

> fade to white at some stage.

Exact same thing here.

[apenn]

BCG Confession. I was very nervous about the BCG for mine since I heard it was rather nasty, and I never had one. I had some EMLA cream in the house that I had used on him before for another purpose, so I knew he would not react to it. I put it on his arm in advance of the injection. He didn't even wince when they put the needle in. He did cry out a little after a few seconds, but nothing compared to the crying I heard from other babies. It definitely lessened the pain for him. I did also confer with my mother in law who is a nurse who couldn't see a problem using it on the vaccination site.

I should add that when I saw most of the other babies come out of the room after their vaccinations, they were fine and easily distracted. I think they forgot about it very soon after. I was more nervous than was needed, but do not regret my decision to use the cream since it clearly made it a less painful experience.

-A

[BanJo]

Does anyone know of any private clinics / GPs in the area who offer the vaccine? I have had several discussions with Townley Road and Kings, both of whom refuse to vaccinate my five and a half year old because NHS policy states the vaccine should be offered to newborn babies and can be given to any additional children aged 1 - 5 (apparently not inclusive.)

Thanks

[jam]

http://www.babyjabs.co.uk/baby_vaccines.htm

[new mother]

I think we will not get it done.

It is only offered in this area owing to the overall ethnic mix and we don't fall into the specific categories at risk. General policy decisions are all very well but you need to look at the specific risk for your child.

(Herd immmunity arguments are irrelevant if your child is at low risk anyway. THey apply where the whole population is at more or less equal risk eg childhood illnesses where it clearly benefits the entire group to try to irradicate a very common disease. If you ch is very unlikely to get it, you are not contributing much to the herd's overlal immunity by getting him or her inoculated.)

[tulip]

I usually don't bother to post- but enjoyed your last post so much "new mother" that I had too.

How nice that you don't mix with the ethnics!