Labour resignations

[Otta]

miga Wrote:

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> I don't think it's reasonable to expect a party

> that represents organised labour not to be "hard

> left", or have some elements of that.

And this is the problem, and has been since the 70s or 80s. Back then there was a pretty clear divide between "the workers", blue collar types, and those that would have been more likely to vote Tory. But that divide between "working class" and "middle class" has been increasingly blurred over the years, and Labour need to appeal to a much wider demographic.

[miga]

Yeah - the divide is blurred, or at least people's sense of their role in society has changed, and their material aspirations have increased.

[TE44]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-party-leadership-contest-vote-jeremy-corbyn-new-members-momentum-vote-avoid-paying-25-fee-a7133851.html

Way around voting without paying ?25.

[Otta]

I agree that it's unfair for people that have actually joined up and paid fees for the past 5 months to be denied a vote. But I do think there should be a cut off maybe a month ago. I am not remotely convinced that a lot of the people that have joined in the past fortnight will not just cancel their membership as soon as the leadership is decided.

But on the wider "registered supporters" subject, what makes people think they should have the right to choose a political party's leader without being a member? It was wrong at ?3, it's wrong at ?25. If people actually care about Labour and who leads it, join up. Otherwise jog on!

[dirac]

TE44 Wrote:

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> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labo

> ur-party-leadership-contest-vote-jeremy-corbyn-new

> -members-momentum-vote-avoid-paying-25-fee-a713385

> 1.html

>

> Way around voting without paying ?25.

Thanks. Honestly don't know what they think pulling that stunt. Says a lot to the 100000 members just joined doesn't it? probably along the lines of "we don't want your vote, we want labour to keep on how it was, because you know, we were doing so so well."

[Otta]

And why are Momentum assuming that all these new members are Corbyn supporters. I know quite a few that signed up straight after the referendum so that they could vote against him if a challenge came.

[Otta]

According to the comments under that article, several of the loopholes have been closed until after the election (such as the Labour Scientists option).

[apbremer]

Heart of stone not to laugh.

[Sue]

More to the point, Labour's website stated (and possibly still does) quite clearly that if you joined up you would be able to vote in any leadership election.

So surely they are in breach of contract?

It didn't say anything about "Oh, and you'll have to pay extra".

[bodsier]

http://www.thecanary.co/2016/07/02/the-real-reason-the-permanent-political-class-is-trying-to-topple-jeremy-corbyn/

Maybe there are some willing to vote against him Otta, but that doesn't explain the fear and victimisation that is surrounding him. Nor the desperate attempts to stop him......

[Sue]

And now the NEC have (has?) stopped all local party meetings.

They are really, really desperate, aren't they?

Trying to shut down discussion amongst the grassroots members, and desperate to stop the Tory Lite MPs being deselected.

[Sue]

Otta Wrote:

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> And why are Momentum assuming that all these new

> members are Corbyn supporters. I know quite a few

> that signed up straight after the referendum so

> that they could vote against him if a challenge

> came.

I know many people who signed up so that they could vote for Corbyn.

But then I live in a bubble of people with similar political views to myself who want this country to be in the hands of people with honesty and integrity who care about looking after everybody, rather than in the hands of a load of self-serving, lying, back-stabbing (insert rude word of choice here) s.

[DuncanW]

The reason the PLP wants rid of him is pretty straight-forward. Their view is he appeals to activists and those on the left of the party, but not to middle-ground floating voter whose support is essential to Labour ever winning another election.

[red devil]

Seems to me the PLP is going about this the wrong way. Instead of trying to oust Corbyn they should just ban Folk music...

[Seabag]

red devil Wrote:

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> Seems to me the PLP is going about this the wrong

> way. Instead of trying to oust Corbyn they should

> just ban Folk music...

And sandals and quiche RD

But not quinoa, god no, they'd be in huge trouble if that went

[Sue]

red devil Wrote:

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> Seems to me the PLP is going about this the wrong

> way. Instead of trying to oust Corbyn they should

> just ban Folk music...

:))

[Sue]

DuncanW Wrote:

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> The reason the PLP wants rid of him is pretty

> straight-forward. Their view is he appeals to

> activists and those on the left of the party, but

> not to middle-ground floating voter whose support

> is essential to Labour ever winning another

> election.

I know several people who haven't voted or who have voted Green of late who have come back to Labour because of Corbyn.

I also know many people who will leave Labour if Corbyn does not stay as leader. Including myself.

We are only "on the left" of the party because it has moved so far right.

And it was not Labour under Corbyn who totally lost touch with its former supporters in, for example, the north. It was the Tory Lite Labour MPs who were placed in constituencies where they apparently had nothing whatever in common with their constituents.

Anyway, I'm going up to my allotment now :))

[Loz]

Sue Wrote:

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> But then I live in a bubble of people with similar political views to myself who want this country to

> be in the hands of people with honesty and integrity

If we've learnt anything over the past few weeks, it's that there is no one in the two main parties that can be described as such (and yes, I most definitely include Corbyn in that - he has proved over the past few weeks to be as dishonest, deceitful and manipulative as the rest of them).

Though we have discovered that the Tories are more efficient at "self-serving, lying, back-stabbing". Labour tries to be self-serving, lying and back-stabbing, but they seem as utterly incompetent at that as just about anything else they try to do at the moment.

Ruth Davidson hit the nail on the head the other day: "Everyone is resigning, getting knifed, bottling it, withdrawing, failing, declaring, or falling on their sword. I think the mad thing in all of the last few weeks is that the last man standing is Jeremy Corbyn. Labour is now putting forward a ?unity candidate? to take on their original ?unity candidate?.

That's the difference between our two parties: Labour is still fumbling with its flies while the Tories are enjoying their post-coital cigarette. After withdrawing our massive Johnson.?

[dirac]

Sue Wrote:

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>

> I know several people who haven't voted or who

> have voted Green of late who have come back to

> Labour because of Corbyn.

>

> I also know many people who will leave Labour if

> Corbyn does not stay as leader. Including myself.

>

^^this is spot on.

I know a lot of people who have never really been interested in politics because of something like "all politicians are just people who are nothing like us" etc, and now are resonating with what JC has to say; how he is; and what he has stood up for in the past; and how he has voted. There are loads of people who I know voted Tory because of being farmers and thinking that [they] had the "country's best interest", but now are planning on voting for JC if he's in the next general election because they have been let down by the people they voted for. I think that's incredible, and says a lot about him, and gets my support. If he's kicked out I'll be leaving and voting for another party.

[DaveR]

Saying 'I know a lot of people who will vote for J Corbyn' is not a very persuasive argument for his ability to win a general election. That involves winning seats from the Tories, in places that tbh you probably never visit and would be hard pushed to point to on a map. Plus, if you think Thatcher was evil, Dave is an oily creep and T Blair is the devil incarnate you're already way out of the political mainstream - you just don't know it.

[JoeLeg]

And here we have the crux of the matter regarding Corbyn.

A lot of his supporters really are in a bubble - large swathes of the country just don't agree with the policies he personally is associated with. It's really not that different from the idea that Blair contaminated Labour or that Thatcher was contaminating the Tories. In the same way Corbyn is putting off a lot of centrist voters.

Sorry, but face facts. This is not a left-leaning country. A party led by Corbyn will never see power, and if you're ok with that then crack on.

But if you want Labour to be elected then wake up and smell the coffee; those swing voters you need are never voting for Corbyn.

I don't particularly like it, or see it as a reason to roll over and take it, but that's the political landscape in the UK.

[*Bob*]

Agree completely Joe n Dave et al

Those that believe that Corbyn (Cor-Byn! COR-BYN!) has *any* chance of winning a GE simply have no idea how a GE is won and lost.

That said, I suspect his most devoted supporters don't even care anyway - so it's all moot.

[Otta]

Sue Wrote:

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> And now the NEC have (has?) stopped all local

> party meetings.

>

> They are really, really desperate, aren't they?

>

> Trying to shut down discussion amongst the

> grassroots members, and desperate to stop the Tory

> Lite MPs being deselected.

No no no no no!

Local party meeting are being completely hijacked by Momentum and anyone that isn't with them is being made to feel very uncomfortable, that is why they are being suspended, because Momentum are the ones that don't actually want democracy, they just want it their way.

[Otta]

And as for anyone posing links to The Canary, I have read many of their articles entitled "the truth about.....", "the real reason........." and stuff like that. It's hugely biased nonsense and tin foil hat stuff most of it.

[Otta]

But I was very impressed with Corbyn at Cameron's last PMQ's yesterday. Thought it was a shame he doesn't come alive a bit more often.